Sam Shepler retweeted
No VC money, no massive enterprise accounts, no sales teams, no growth hacking, no retention specialists ... Just exceptional, self-service, word-of-mouth project management software for small/medium-sized businesses. Just Basecamp.
Sam Shepler retweeted
This is a solid breakdown for creative service/productized businesses.
After getting to know Sam and learning how he built Testimonial Hero, I realized he approaches productized services differently than most.
MRR can be tempting, but chasing it blindly might be the shiny object pulling you away from building a truly sustainable business.
Sam Shepler@SamShepler13 Jul 2023United States
United StatesConnected via WebAccount-level information, not a live location or per-post device.
Replying to @coreyhainesco
7 things I’ve learned running a $3M Productized Agency:
1) Lifetime value and AOV are more important than MRR - Especially in the early days.
You will grow faster and have better cash-flow starting out if you can increase your AOV and if possible, collect all of that upfront or as fast as possible. Churn on most marketing services is very high so services MRR isn’t as recurring as you may think anyways. Starting out, focus on solving customer problems and billing upfront if possible—even if that means sprints or projects.
2) Moving beyond monthly billing unlocks new service design options and value for the customer.
When you operate from the stance of “we have to solve problems that we can bill for monthly” that drastically boxes in the type of services you can deliver. Do not let the MRR tail wag the delivering value to the customer dog. Ask yourself what expensive problem can I solve for the customer, that I am uniquely qualified for, that eventually I can put a process behind and completely remove myself.
3) You still want to get to recurring revenue eventually, but think about it more broadly:
You do need recurring revenue but it can take different forms. For example, could be re-ocurring projects every few months, vs monthly recurring. It could also be billed quarterly, bi-annually, or annually.
If you bill people monthly, you must deliver serious impact every single month. Think about the timeframe you actually can deliver serious impact in. What time frame is that? Would you be better off charging more and billing at a different timeframe?
4) If your business model means cash-basis and accrual-basis accounting look different, start doing accrual asap (and understand the difference).
If you’re collecting upfront payments (which is ideal for cash flow early on and highly recommended to grow quickly) cash and accrual will look very different. It’s critical to understand this and be aware that what is earned revenue vs unearned revenue.
You can still use unearned revenue to grow quickly, it can be a fantastic way to finance growth. But you want to be sure you know what you’re doing and avoid any surprises. So if you’re collecting upfront on quarterly, annual, project, sprint, or ANY type of work, make sure you understand the concepts of accrual revenue recognition and transition to semi-accrual or basic accrual (in addition to cash basis) as soon as possible.
5) 6)Gross Margin is the most important line on your P&L.
Profitability is a war and the frontlines of that war are your gross margin. You can always change around OPEX to hit certain net margin targets, but if you mess up your gross margin, there’s not a lot of pie to go around. Make sure to account for your founding team’s time as well, if you plan to hire for that role eventually. A lot of people find out their margins only worked in hindsight because they were doing the service delivery - they didn’t account for the COGs correctly at market rates for when AFTER they try to bring in more team members.
At scale, with a team etc, 50% is basically the minimum gross margin target. 60%+ is very good.
6) Obsess more about solving the customer's problem than if you are a productized service or agency etc.
A lot of people will argue this defines a productized service vs this defines an agency etc etc. Focus much more on simply solving an urgent and expensive problem than the precise categorization. Also, it’s something that will change and evolve with your strategy. Sometimes you want to be more productized. Sometimes, it pays to be more of an agency. It’s a spectrum that changes through the lifecycle of your company so don’t worry too much about semantics. More and more, I like the term “Productized Agency” as it incorporates both ideas though.
7) Work with a coach who has achieved what you want to achieve in the agency or productized service world.
Monthly or bi-weekly calls with productized agency founders who are where I want to be in 2-3 years has been transformative for me. Find someone who is where you want to be in 2-3 years and ask to pay them for a 60 minute monthly call. Come to the call with an agenda of everything you are stuck with, things that are stressing you out, issues and opportunities etc and get their perspective. I’ve done this with multiple folks ahead of me and it has helped me dodge a TON of landmines.
Sam Shepler retweeted
If you’re an aspiring agency owner, here’s the exact 7-step playbook you can use to go from $0 to $1M in your first 24 months:
Step 1: Look Inward
Ask yourself these questions:
1. What do I enjoy doing in marketing?
2. What am I good at in marketing?
3. What do other people think I am good at in marketing?
4. What would they pay me for it?
Step 2: Triple Niche
A “Triple Niche” is offering a single service, to a single title, in a single industry.
With this deep focus as your starting point, you can immediately compete with larger agencies and have a differentiated shop.
Here’s what it could look like for you:
We offer LinkedIn Ad management to Directors of Demand Gen at Cybersecurity companies with 100-500 employees.
Step 3: Get 3x Clients and Pause
Call your mom, call your cousin, call an old boss, call everyone you know until you get warm intros into your first few accounts. Sell your story, not the agency. These are people who want to bet on you. Prove them right for hiring you, get insane results, and then pause.
Step 4: 3x Case Studies and a Website
You now have three amazing case studies + testimonials. Yes, you have to ask and yes, they will give these to you.
From here, build a website. Find a friend or a college design student and ask if they can build you a simple site. Take your favorite agency site and use as inspiration. Include the following pages:
- Home
- About (your story and credentials)
- Methodology (see Step **#7**)
- Service (the service, who you provide it to, and the impact it will have)
- Case Studies (3x testimonials from first accounts)
- Resources (if you want to share any opinions)
- Get Proposal Form
Step 5: Turn your madness into a structured deliverable
Now, you need to standardize your creative process. For a full 30 days, record everything you do for customers with a Loom and then map back to a line item in your SOW and SOP. The key to a great agency SOP is that you require your strategists (see Step **#6**) to only do the things that work 100% of the time, every time. You only want your team to do foundational tasks on a repeat basis. The rest of the time they should fill with flexible, impactful tactics for the unique needs of their unique client.
Step 6: Hire your first strategist
You have interviewed 5+ people and are ready to make your first hire. Go with your gut and choose someone who is reliable, consistent, shares your values, enjoys change, and works incredibly hard.
Then after you hire them, DON'T give them an account...
They are going to shadow you for 30 days: be on client calls with you, hop on your Zoom for a screenshare so they can see you “do” the work. Next, you are going to give them a full dummy account and have them present their work to you like a traditional 30 day project phase for a customer.
You have now been paused for 60 days for new business, but you have the following:
- 3 clients
- 3 testimonials + references
- 1 clean website
- 1 clear deliverable
- 1 talented strategist
Step 7: Get Clients + Build a Methodology
Now that you have a strategist, you need to get them billable. So, back to sales and marketing. From here on out, you will never stop selling and marketing the agency. But, to do great marketing, you need a methodology.
Here’s how to make one:
1. Create a name that aligns with your industry. (I chose Customer Generation as a spinoff of demand gen)
2. Create five principles for your methodology. These are the foundational pieces of your deliverable that differentiate you from the market. These should be the things that you know matter, but no one prioritizes. For example, we build and manually verify a TAM for every paid engagement.
3. List out three outcomes that every customer can expect from properly applying your methodology
BONUS:
Here’s some basic thoughts on scale:
- Hire a manager every 4 strategists so they are onboarded and ready before you have six (max capacity for middle manager in my opinon)
- Hire a Director every 8 strategists (I like to start with a manager so I can internally promote or have a clear idea of character traits needed)
- Hire a recruiter once you hire more then 1 person a month.
- Keep your books and data clean.
- Spend 75% of your time on sales and marketing
Have any questions?
AMA in the comments
Sam Shepler retweeted
People undervalue a great B2B Services company
“Agency life sucks” etc
Many people chase SaaS, Info, and Marketplaces like they are a pool in the desert
Careful out there - not that simple
Sam Shepler retweeted
The view from the other side.
@SamShepler always ran circles around us on video. As we competed, both sides kept it clean.
The capabilities TH has now, with this acquisition and their earlier moves this year, put them in a class of their own.
Want an intro? Let me know.
Sam Shepler@SamShepler25 Mar 2024United States
United StatesConnected via WebAccount-level information, not a live location or per-post device.
Ok so the big announcement (if you haven't heard)...
@TestimonialHero has acquired @casestudybuddy!
@JoelKlettke and his cofounder Jen Enns built an incredible company based on the premise that happy customers singing your praises is the best form of marketing.
We share this vision at Testimonial Hero, but we were never able to create written customer stories like they were.
From the beginning our DNA was in video production, while CSB's expertise was writing from the start.
That's why I'm so excited to complete this acquisition and give the market the best of both worlds, in a one-stop-shop.
A complete solution for all things B2B customer stories.
🔥🔥🔥
Sam Shepler retweeted
If you’re productizing a service, start with what you know.
Invest in what you know.
If you’re in the earlier stages it’s about understanding why you have a competitive advantage over someone else.
Sam Shepler retweeted
All agency owners and service providers should carve out time to watch this interview between @SamShepler and @gregoryjhickman.
Soooooo many tactical takeaways. Thanks for sharing, gents.
Sam Shepler@SamShepler23 Feb 2024United States
United StatesConnected via WebAccount-level information, not a live location or per-post device.
Sharing the highs and lows of building a $3M+ productized service!
45 minute interview with the man himself @gregoryjhickman
Greg is an incredible interviewer and we had fun with this one.
Link to the interview in first comment below👇👇
Sam Shepler retweeted
If you are into productized services then you'll want to here from @SamShepler in this interview.
I think we talk "productized" like most aren't right now.
Some peeps need to catch up and catch on. ;)
Sam Shepler@SamShepler23 Feb 2024United States
United StatesConnected via WebAccount-level information, not a live location or per-post device.
Sharing the highs and lows of building a $3M+ productized service!
45 minute interview with the man himself @gregoryjhickman
Greg is an incredible interviewer and we had fun with this one.
Link to the interview in first comment below👇👇
Sam Shepler retweeted
Sam is an amazing entrepreneur. Highly recc the listen!
Sam Shepler@SamShepler23 Feb 2024United States
United StatesConnected via WebAccount-level information, not a live location or per-post device.
Sharing the highs and lows of building a $3M+ productized service!
45 minute interview with the man himself @gregoryjhickman
Greg is an incredible interviewer and we had fun with this one.
Link to the interview in first comment below👇👇
Sam Shepler retweeted
The whole point of hiring is to have employees that are thinking one step ahead of you.
A business doesn't scale by hiring a bunch of cheap labor and writing up a blueprint for them to follow.
Sam Shepler retweeted

Sam Shepler@SamShepler13 Jul 2023
United States
United StatesConnected via WebAccount-level information, not a live location or per-post device.
Replying to @coreyhainesco
7 things I’ve learned running a $3M Productized Agency:
1) Lifetime value and AOV are more important than MRR - Especially in the early days.
You will grow faster and have better cash-flow starting out if you can increase your AOV and if possible, collect all of that upfront or as fast as possible. Churn on most marketing services is very high so services MRR isn’t as recurring as you may think anyways. Starting out, focus on solving customer problems and billing upfront if possible—even if that means sprints or projects.
2) Moving beyond monthly billing unlocks new service design options and value for the customer.
When you operate from the stance of “we have to solve problems that we can bill for monthly” that drastically boxes in the type of services you can deliver. Do not let the MRR tail wag the delivering value to the customer dog. Ask yourself what expensive problem can I solve for the customer, that I am uniquely qualified for, that eventually I can put a process behind and completely remove myself.
3) You still want to get to recurring revenue eventually, but think about it more broadly:
You do need recurring revenue but it can take different forms. For example, could be re-ocurring projects every few months, vs monthly recurring. It could also be billed quarterly, bi-annually, or annually.
If you bill people monthly, you must deliver serious impact every single month. Think about the timeframe you actually can deliver serious impact in. What time frame is that? Would you be better off charging more and billing at a different timeframe?
4) If your business model means cash-basis and accrual-basis accounting look different, start doing accrual asap (and understand the difference).
If you’re collecting upfront payments (which is ideal for cash flow early on and highly recommended to grow quickly) cash and accrual will look very different. It’s critical to understand this and be aware that what is earned revenue vs unearned revenue.
You can still use unearned revenue to grow quickly, it can be a fantastic way to finance growth. But you want to be sure you know what you’re doing and avoid any surprises. So if you’re collecting upfront on quarterly, annual, project, sprint, or ANY type of work, make sure you understand the concepts of accrual revenue recognition and transition to semi-accrual or basic accrual (in addition to cash basis) as soon as possible.
5) 6)Gross Margin is the most important line on your P&L.
Profitability is a war and the frontlines of that war are your gross margin. You can always change around OPEX to hit certain net margin targets, but if you mess up your gross margin, there’s not a lot of pie to go around. Make sure to account for your founding team’s time as well, if you plan to hire for that role eventually. A lot of people find out their margins only worked in hindsight because they were doing the service delivery - they didn’t account for the COGs correctly at market rates for when AFTER they try to bring in more team members.
At scale, with a team etc, 50% is basically the minimum gross margin target. 60%+ is very good.
6) Obsess more about solving the customer's problem than if you are a productized service or agency etc.
A lot of people will argue this defines a productized service vs this defines an agency etc etc. Focus much more on simply solving an urgent and expensive problem than the precise categorization. Also, it’s something that will change and evolve with your strategy. Sometimes you want to be more productized. Sometimes, it pays to be more of an agency. It’s a spectrum that changes through the lifecycle of your company so don’t worry too much about semantics. More and more, I like the term “Productized Agency” as it incorporates both ideas though.
7) Work with a coach who has achieved what you want to achieve in the agency or productized service world.
Monthly or bi-weekly calls with productized agency founders who are where I want to be in 2-3 years has been transformative for me. Find someone who is where you want to be in 2-3 years and ask to pay them for a 60 minute monthly call. Come to the call with an agenda of everything you are stuck with, things that are stressing you out, issues and opportunities etc and get their perspective. I’ve done this with multiple folks ahead of me and it has helped me dodge a TON of landmines.
Sam Shepler retweeted
How do you go from freelancer to running a multi-million dollar agency?
Here are the 20 things I did (good and bad) to pull this off.
And I hope it can help you.
See thread:
Sam Shepler retweeted
Give yourself just 3 high-impact tasks to get done each week. Ignore everything else on your to-do list.
You'll be shocked out how much more productive you'll be.
Sam Shepler retweeted
My no-code saas has received multi 7 figure acquisition offers
I put together a comprehensive document on how to start and grow a no code saas
Just RT + comment "no code" & I'll send it over
(must be following fo r me to dm)
Sam Shepler retweeted
I took part in a productized service CEO roundtable podcast episode with @JimWHuffman @SamShepler @KarlLHughes and @JoelKlettke last week. Went live today.
Have a listen!
open.spotify.com/episode/50h…
Sam Shepler retweeted
A productized service roundtable: open.spotify.com/show/5Oq7Nz…
In which @JimWHuffman, @SamShepler, @KarlLHughes, @dohertyjf, and I talk about the trials, tribulations, and tidbits we've learned running productized businesses, and I allude to big piles of manure I've stepped in.
Sam Shepler retweeted
A lot of entrepreneurs put MRR (monthly recurring revenue) on a pedestal, but it's not necessarily best for you or your customers.
In many cases, up-front billing or metered billing might make more sense.
Sam Shepler retweeted
How do you run 2 companies while working 4 days a Week?
@dohertyjf hands over all his secrets on how he grows Credo & EditorNinja while not working Fridays.
If you're a bootstrapped CEO that's trying to build systems that scale then this is for you.
open.spotify.com/episode/0dF…
Sam Shepler retweeted
Productized Service =
Fixed Fee
Fixed Problem
Fixed Scope
Fixed Turnaround
Fixed Deliverables
Fixed Outcome
Result =
Low Operational Drag
Repeatable Results
Predictable Process
Demand Creation
Higher Profits
Faster / Efficient Results


















