Craig Weinberg retweeted
Replying to @BernardJBaars
That doesn't explain the nature of what is being accessed or how access is accomplished. That is the more important issue. What is accessed is an aesthetic-participatory phenomenon. It is not mass-energy or information-process, which are the antithesis (mechanical-automatic).
My comments:
multisenserealism.com/2025/1…
Replying to @TOEwithCurt
Its all still patterns of mechanical effect though, not aesthetic quality.
Critically important to understand those patterns for medical purposes, certainly, but (1) the hard problem isn't addressed, and (2) AI makes (1) really important.
Thanks Michael
We’re not necessarily disagreeing. Membranes by themselves can generate field patterns, e.g. via interference. If you squeeze axoplasm out of an axon, like toothpaste from a tube, and replace with saline, the axon still fires due to membrane ion channels. But I don’t think axonal firings are conscious. They’re not affected by anesthesia. Consciousness happens collectively at end integration (end orchestration) in somatic microtubules and triggers firings. There’s more fine scale quantum processes involved at higher frequencies. Those are probably generating patterns and fields at finer scale, and holographically. We know megahertz and gigahertz can regulate axonal firings, so they may be at play in embryogenesis. A deeper level. Maybe conscious. Have you looked for megahertz in endogenous patterns?
A body is a geometric object composed of smaller objects (cells > molecules > particles). Objects are tangible appearances within a conscious experience.
A person is not a body, they are a conscious experience of percepts, thoughts, memories, etc extending beyond tangibility.
The behavior of objects (tangible formations) is limited to changes in their geometry - location and shape.
We attribute those changes to physical forces, which are automatic and inevitable or random but also purely geometric. Movements are the sum of the forces present.
"Mapping" is not physical.
Electromagetic 'interaction' is particle movement, not thought.
Physical phenomena are concrete, tangible, formations in public space. Moving shapes/fields/forces. Nothing else. Causally closed = no emergence.
There is nothing in the universe that is non-physical. Even concepts and thoughts are electromagnetic field interactions and chemical pumps and ion flows.
What we call 'the abstract' are patterns that describe the consistent and relevant system dynamics of a thing as it relates to our intentions, but these always have a physical implementation.
So what is abstraction then? It means there is some mapping between the electro-chemical interactions in my head, to whatever physical dynamics in some thing, to the electro-chemical interactions in some other persons head.
That's really the premise of language to begin with, that two people can have the same idea in their head and this idea consistently refers to some external phenomenon. Which neurons fire up and the pattern connectivity in each persons brain is wildly different, but, so long as the reference is consistent its all good.
None of this is interesting or useful imo.
I don't think that qualia are subjective, I think that subjectivity and objectivity are ways of categorizing qualia.
'What it is like' is a meaningless folk idiom. Qualia are aesthetic-participatory phenomena.
It's not that everything is conscious, it's that conscious experience is what existence consists of. All 'things' are appearances in perception.
The utility of understanding that is beside the point. The universe doesn't need to be useful to us.
I think human and octopus consciousness would have some common features as both are based on microtubules in my view.
AI consciousness based on computation is fantasy I think.
I do agree panpychism is not useful. Consciousness is a process, sequences of collapses of the wavefunction. What is needed is quantum pan-protopsychism.
Panpsychism has the combination problem and epiphenomenalism problem, easily addressed by quantum
pan-protopsychism. See Mike Wiest article in Neuroscience of Consciousness
academic.oup.com/nc/article/…
3 is false
Software and logic exist only as abstract concepts in our intellectual experience. They have no effect on objects. All hardware is changed by mechanical or electromagnetic force alone. Software is compiled out of existence before it ever touches hardware.
Replying to @SpeedWatkins
(1) Software is abstract and immaterial.
(2) Hardware is physical; material.
(3) Software and hardware causally interact.
(4) [left as an exercise to the reader]
Just the opposite. Consciousness is the continuing experience. Neurological appearances are a rendering of consciousness on a subpersonal scale. We do not exist on that scale. The mistake is in presuming that one scale is more real just because of its objectified appearance.
Craig Weinberg retweeted
Replying to @TOEwithCurt
As far as I can tell, energy is a heuristic abstraction that gives us numbers to use in equations to predict and control how matter moves matter. I think nature is sensory-motive all the way down & E is tangible motive > motor effect.
multisenserealism.com/2016/0…
Craig Weinberg retweeted
Walter Cannon: “life is whatever can be anesthetized”
J. C. Bose: hold my drink, while I anesthetize metals and such.
"Response in the living and non-living" by Bose, Jagadis Chandra
archive.org/details/response…
ecologise.in/2018/11/13/j-c-…
"He once invited Sir Michael Foster, a veteran physiologist at Cambridge, to witness the electrical response of a poisoned piece of tin (as written by Patrick Geddes in archive.org/details/lifeandw…):
“Come now, Bose, (said Foster) what is the novelty in this curve? We have known it for at least the last half-century.”
“What do you think it is?” asked Bose.
“Why, a curve of muscle response, of course.”
“Pardon me; it is the response of metallic tin.”
“What!” said Foster, jumping up. “Tin! Did you say tin?”
Why wouldn't that coordination occur unconsciously, using the same kinds of biochemical mechanisms presumed to coordinate complex processes in every other body organ and complicated material phenomenon in the universe?











