Αυλητής 🇨🇾🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

Indeed many seem confused, from the highest @PageauJonathan on down... In the context of the Trojan Horse, the Trojan Horse was built to win Helen back after the Trojans defied "xenia" by stealing Helen. The Trojan Horse was built to serve "xenia" and serve the Will of Zeus and protect the sanctity of marriage. Ben writes--"The entire movie is rooted in what Nolan terms "Zeus' law." That law is: "Treat others as you would want to be treated, because anyone might be a god." Now, clearly, there's nothing like that in Greek mythology. It's not implicit in Homer. It's a direct rip from Biblical morality, substituting "because anyone might be a god" for "because man was made in the image of God."" Is Ben right @grok? @michaeljknowles @MattWalshBlog Here're more insights regarding this: "Here is the complete map of Zeus's law of the stranger — Zeus Xenios — across both epics. Everything below marked with a citation is verified this session against the Greek text and the named translations; the few items I could not verify verbatim are flagged as such rather than quoted. The Law stated — the two great formulae 1. Odyssey 6.206–208 — Nausicaa to her maids, over the naked castaway Odysseus. The first full statement of the law in the poem: ἀλλ᾽ ὅδε τις δύστηνος ἀλώμενος ἐνθάδ᾽ ἱκάνει, τὸν νῦν χρὴ κομέειν: πρὸς γὰρ Διός εἰσιν ἅπαντες ξεῖνοί τε πτωχοί τε, δόσις δ᾽ ὀλίγη τε φίλη τε Perseus Digital Library Literal: "But this is some wretched wanderer who has come here, and now we must care for him: for from Zeus are all strangers and beggars, and a gift, though small, is dear." Butler: "This is only some poor man who has lost his way, and we must be kind to him, for strangers and foreigners in distress are under Jove's protection, and will take what they can get and be thankful" utk 2. Odyssey 14.56–58 — Eumaeus the swineherd to the beggar (his disguised king). The same formula, spoken by the poorest host in the poem to the poorest-seeming guest: ξεῖν᾽, οὔ μοι θέμις ἔστ᾽, οὐδ᾽ εἰ κακίων σέθεν ἔλθοι, ξεῖνον ἀτιμῆσαι· πρὸς γὰρ Διός εἰσιν ἅπαντες ξεῖνοί τε πτωχοί τε Wikisource Literal: "Stranger, it is not right (θέμις) for me, not even if a worse man than you should come, to dishonor a stranger: for from Zeus are all strangers and beggars." Butler: "Stranger, though a still poorer man should come here, it would not be right for me to insult him, for all strangers and beggars are from Jove." Sacred Texts Archive Note the design: the aristocratic princess and the slave swineherd recite the identical line (πρὸς γὰρ Διός εἰσιν ἅπαντες / ξεῖνοί τε πτωχοί τε). The law binds every rank, and the poem proves it from both ends of society. "Anyone might be a god" — the passage behind your paraphrase 3. Odyssey 17.483–487 — the suitors to Antinous, after he strikes beggar-Odysseus with a footstool. This is the closest Homer comes to your formulation: Ἀντίνο᾽, οὐ μὲν κάλ᾽ ἔβαλες δύστηνον ἀλήτην, οὐλόμεν᾽, εἰ δή πού τις ἐπουράνιος θεός ἐστιν. καί τε θεοὶ ξείνοισιν ἐοικότες ἀλλοδαποῖσι, παντοῖοι τελέθοντες, ἐπιστρωφῶσι πόληας, ἀνθρώπων ὕβριν τε καὶ εὐνομίην ἐφορῶντες Perseus Digital Library Literal: "Antinous, you did not do well to strike the wretched wanderer — doomed man, what if he is some god from heaven! For the gods, likening themselves to strangers from afar, taking on all shapes, roam the cities, watching over the ὕβρις and the good order (εὐνομίην) of men." Butler: "Antinous, you did ill in striking that poor wretch of a tramp: it will be worse for you if he should turn out to be some god—and we know the gods go about disguised in all sorts of ways as people from foreign countries, and travel about the world to see who do amiss and who righteously." Owl Eyes Pope: "Ill fits the stranger and the poor to wound. Unbless'd thy hand! if in this low disguise Wander, perhaps, some inmate of the skies; They (curious oft of mortal actions) deign In forms like these to round the earth and main, Just and unjust recording in their mind, And with sure eyes inspecting all mankind." Wikisource The supreme irony, fully engineered: the suitors state the god-in-disguise doctrine over a disguised Odysseus — wrong about the divinity, exactly right about the surveillance and the doom. The man they warn Antinous about will kill him first (22.8–21, arrow through the throat as he lifts his cup). The Cyclops — the law invoked, denied, and enforced 4. Odyssey 9.266–271 — Odysseus invokes the law in the cave. The fullest theology of xenia in Homer, naming Zeus by his cult title: ἡμεῖς δ᾽ αὖτε κιχανόμενοι τὰ σὰ γοῦνα ἱκόμεθ᾽, εἴ τι πόροις ξεινήιον ἠὲ καὶ ἄλλως δοίης δωτίνην, ἥ τε ξείνων θέμις ἐστίν. ἀλλ᾽ αἰδεῖο, φέριστε, θεούς: ἱκέται δέ τοί εἰμεν, Ζεὺς δ᾽ ἐπιτιμήτωρ ἱκετάων τε ξείνων τε, ξείνιος, ὃς ξείνοισιν ἅμ᾽ αἰδοίοισιν ὀπηδεῖ Perseus Digital Library Literal: "We for our part, coming to your knees, arrive as suppliants — hoping you might give a guest-gift (ξεινήιον), or otherwise grant a present, which is the right (θέμις) of strangers. Respect the gods, mightiest one: we are your suppliants, and Zeus is the avenger (ἐπιτιμήτωρ) of suppliants and strangers — Zeus Xenios — who attends upon reverend strangers." Butler: "We therefore humbly pray you to show us some hospitality, and otherwise make us such presents as visitors may reasonably expect. May your excellency fear the wrath of heaven, for we are your suppliants, and Jove takes all respectable travellers under his protection, for he is the avenger of all suppliants and foreigners in distress." Wikisource 5. Odyssey 9.273–278 — Polyphemus denies the law. The only creature in either epic to reject it in principle: νήπιός εἰς, ὦ ξεῖν᾽, ἢ τηλόθεν εἰλήλουθας, ὅς με θεοὺς κέλεαι ἢ δειδίμεν ἢ ἀλέασθαι: οὐ γὰρ Κύκλωπες Διὸς αἰγιόχου ἀλέγουσιν οὐδὲ θεῶν μακάρων, ἐπεὶ ἦ πολὺ φέρτεροί εἰμεν smerdaleos Literal: "You are a fool, stranger, or come from far away, you who bid me fear or shun the gods: for the Cyclopes pay no heed to aegis-bearing Zeus nor the blessed gods, since we are far mightier." Butler: "'Stranger,' said he, 'you are a fool, or else you know nothing of this country. Talk to me, indeed, about fearing the gods or shunning their anger. We Cyclopes do not care about Jove or any of your blessed gods, for we are ever so m[uch stronger]'" — and his "guest-gift" is to eat Noman last. The blinding follows as the law's enforcement: at 9.479 Odysseus tells him his evil deeds were bound to find him since he did not shrink from devouring guests in his own house — "therefore Zeus and the other gods have punished you" (τῷ σε Ζεὺς τίσατο καὶ θεοὶ ἄλλοι — this line quoted from memory of the standard text; flagging it as the one Greek line in this section I did not re-verify today). Note also the poem's framing question, which recurs verbatim at every strange landfall (6.119–121, 9.175–176, 13.201–202): ἦ ῥ᾽ οἵ γ᾽ ὑβρισταί τε καὶ ἄγριοι οὐδὲ δίκαιοι, ἦε φιλόξεινοι καί σφιν νόος ἐστὶ θεουδής; — "are they violent, savage, unjust — or hospitable to strangers, with a god-fearing mind?" Hospitality is the poem's litmus test for whether a people is civilized: φιλόξεινοι and θεουδής are treated as one property. Myth and Folkloresmerdaleos The beggar disguise — Books 14–22 as one long trial of the law The entire second half of the Odyssey is a systematic test of Ithaca under Zeus's law, with the king himself as the test instrument: Eumaeus passes (14.56–58 above) — and adds the Egyptian-tale corroboration at 14.283–284, where even a foreign king spares a suppliant: Butler: "the king protected me, for he feared the wrath of Jove the protector of strangers, who punishes those who do evil." Wikisource Telemachus passes — in Book 1 he is ashamed a stranger should stand at the door (1.119–120), seats disguised Athena at his own table; the poem opens by certifying the son in the law the suitors break. Antinous fails (17.462–465, the footstool) and receives the suitors' own warning (17.483–487 above). The household's verdict: Penelope prays Apollo strike Antinous as he struck the beggar ("αἴθ᾽ οὕτως αὐτόν σε βάλοι κλυτότοξος Ἀπόλλων"); the slaughter of Book 22 is the sentence executed. The Odyssey's climax is not merely revenge — it is Zeus Xenios's enforcement action, carried out by the beggar the law protected. Sacred Texts Archive The Iliad — the law as the cause of the whole war 6. Iliad 13.620–627 — Menelaus over the corpse of Peisander. The Iliad's central Zeus Xenios text, naming Paris's crime as guest-law violation and predicting Troy's fall from that violation: ἣν ἐμὲ λωβήσασθε κακαὶ κύνες, οὐδέ τι θυμῷ Ζηνὸς ἐριβρεμέτεω χαλεπὴν ἐδείσατε μῆνιν ξεινίου, ὅς τέ ποτ᾽ ὔμμι διαφθέρσει πόλιν αἰπήν· οἵ μευ κουριδίην ἄλοχον καὶ κτήματα πολλὰ μὰψ οἴχεσθ᾽ ἀνάγοντες, ἐπεὶ φιλέεσθε παρ᾽ αὐτῇ Ntua Literal: "...evil dogs, nor did you fear in your heart the harsh wrath of loud-thundering Zeus Xenios, who will one day destroy your steep city — you who wantonly carried off my wedded wife and many possessions, after you had been entertained as guests at her side (ἐπεὶ φιλέεσθε παρ᾽ αὐτῇ)." Butler: "Cowardly she-wolves that you are, you feared not the anger of dread Jove, avenger of violated hospitality, who will one day destroy your city; you stole my wedded wife and wickedly carried off much treasure when you were her guest" MIT Classics Pope: "Thus, Trojans, thus, at length be taught to fear; O race perfidious, who delight in war! Already noble deeds ye have perform'd; A princess raped transcends a navy storm'd: In such bold feats your impious might approve, Without th' assistance, or the fear of Jove. The violated rites, the ravish'd dame; Our heroes slaughter'd and our ships on flame, Crimes heap'd on crimes, shall bend your glory down, And whelm in ruins yon flagitious town." mythopedia This is the theological key to the Iliad: Troy falls because Paris ate at Menelaus's table and then took his host's wife. The Trojan War is Zeus Xenios's enforcement action, exactly as the suitor-slaughter is — the two epics share one legal architecture. 7. Iliad 3.351–354 — Menelaus's prayer before the duel with Paris. He asks Zeus for vengeance explicitly so that future men will fear to wrong a host. Greek from the standard text (high confidence, not re-verified this session): Ζεῦ ἄνα, δὸς τίσασθαι ὅ με πρότερος κάκ᾽ ἔοργε, δῖον Ἀλέξανδρον, καὶ ἐμῇς ὑπὸ χερσὶ δάμασσον, ὄφρα τις ἐρρίγῃσι καὶ ὀψιγόνων ἀνθρώπων ξεινοδόκον κακὰ ῥέξαι, ὅ κεν φιλότητα παράσχῃ — "Lord Zeus, grant me to punish the man who first wronged me, godlike Alexandros, and subdue him under my hands, so that many a man among men yet to be born may shudder to do evil to a host who has offered him friendship." The word ξεινοδόκος — "guest-receiver," host — makes the prayer a jurisprudential statement: the duel is meant as precedent. 8. Iliad 6.119–236 — Glaucus and Diomedes. The law's positive face in the Iliad: two enemies discover their grandfathers were guest-friends (ξεῖνος πατρώιος, 6.215 — hereditary guest-friendship), whereupon they refuse to fight each other, clasp hands, and exchange armor in the middle of the battlefield. Guest-friendship overrides war itself — the one bond in the poem that suspends the killing. 9. Iliad 24 — Priam in Achilles' hut. Not xenia in the technical sense but its twin, Zeus's protection of the suppliant: Zeus sends Hermes to escort Priam; Achilles receives the father of his enemy, feeds him, weeps with him, and gives him a bed — the Iliad closes with its most terrifying killer performing the rites of the host. The two epics end the same way: the code of the stranger, honored at last in the innermost room. What is the symbolism of so may experts and intellectual leaders teaching that a life of honor, kleos, glory, strategy, adventure, friendship, logos, and arete will lead to eternal regret? What all might this symbolize? Perhaps many folks attempt to "Christianize" and/or deconstruct the Odyssey by falsely teaching that Achilles regrets his life of honor, glory, kleos, and logos, in the same way that Nolan's Odyssey teaches that Odysseus regrets serving the Law of Zeus and winning Helen back. It is often hard to discern their motivations, such as when Ascend falsely teaches in their guide to the Odyssey, "Achilles now would trade his immortal fame to live as a slave on earth. The revelation is a comment upon the contrast in the Iliad between Achilles and Hector— who lived a true life of arete or excellence? What does it mean to be an excellent man? Achilles’ path of god-like rage has led him to an eternity of regret...." Nowhere in Homer is any of the above ever stated, nor shown, nor demonstrated. Nowhere does Homer state, "Achilles’ path of god-like rage has led him to an eternity of regret." This is entirely an invention of postmodern deconstructionists. Nolan teaches that Odysseus regrets his life of honor, logos, glory, excellence, bravery, and strategy, while Ascend teaches that Achilles regrets his life of honor, logos, glory, excellence, bravery. Between the two, they have all bases covered. Why do so many postmodernists derive so much joy in falsely teaching that Achilles regretted his life of honor, glory, logos, kleos, friendship, courage, and arete? In much the same way, Nolan teaches that Odysseus regrets his life of honor, glory, logos, kleos, and courage. xitter.cf/wyomingiliad/status/20… So basically our era is largely defined by those who gleefully invert Homer's lessons, deconstruct honor, and teach and preach that a life of honor, glory, and kleos will lead to a life of regret. Achilles, Socrates, and Odysseus did not regret their lives of Honor, Kleos, Arete, and Glory, and it is quite remarkable how so many vehemently unite to teach the opposite with vast conviction and even greater passion. Unlike in Nolan's version, in Homer's actual Iliad and Odyssey, Odysseus never considered that the Trojan Horse escapade violated the Law of Zeus. Rather, the Trojan Horse was used as a device to serve the sanctity of marriage, win the war, and win Helen back, thusly serving the Law of Zeus. It really makes no sense to have Odysseus regretting serving his friends, his country--Honor, Logos, and Glory--and the Law of Zeus. The New Yorker likely sheds light on why Pageau is so very fond of the film as if it is the Second Coming Trojan Horse--did Pageau ever actually read Homer?: @NewYorker “It is probably viewers who haven’t read Homer who are likeliest to enjoy ‘The Odyssey’ ”—Christopher Nolan’s version—Richard Brody writes. --xitter.cf/NewYorker/status/20774… “It is probably viewers who haven’t read Homer (or who pretend to have read Homer, or read Homer but not as Homer composed Homer) who are likeliest to enjoy ‘The Odyssey’." Is it common for historians to rewrite Homer and fabricate things he never stated, or is this mostly some sort of postmodern performance art particular to our times? @dcsandbrook @holland_tom xitter.cf/wyomingiliad/status/20… A strange doctrine now circulates among the popularizers of the classics, a doctrine repeated on podcasts, in Great Books guides, in classroom handouts, and across social media accounts that seem to post photographs of Greek texts more often than they actually read them as they were written. The doctrine holds that Achilles, meeting Odysseus among the dead in Book 11 of the Odyssey, recants. He is said to confess that the heroic life was an error, that the choice of kleos over nostos was a blunder, that honor and glory are hollow, and that the quiet obscure life was the right one all along. In its boldest formulations, Achilles is made to say — in words appearing in no manuscript, no papyrus, no scholium, and no translation from Chapman in 1615 to the present day — "I made a terrible mistake." That sentence was spoken aloud, in almost exactly those words, on The Rest Is History, among the most popular history podcasts in the English-speaking world, hosted by the historians Tom Holland and Dominic Sandbrook.3 ..... And the sociology invites one further Homeric observation. The Iliad opens with an older man of rank and title stripping a younger hero of his honor, and rationalizing the seizure with the full authority of his office. There is something recognizably Agamemnon-like in the spectacle of credentialed commentators laboring, generation after generation, to take Achilles' honor from him a second time — this time not by confiscating Briseis, but by bureaucratic and pedantic commentary, by teaching young men that the life of honor, arete, courage, kleos, and friendship, such as Achilles lived, terminates in regret; that speaking truth to Agamemnons and defying the corrupt machine ends in a deathbed confession of error. The Iliad already contains the type of the man who cannot abide another's kleos and must diminish it by administrative means. Homer, as usual, anticipated his critics. Read in full here: xitter.cf/wyomingiliad/status/20… @dominbydigdug @ObtainerOf @Hughposting @realAtlasPress @the_culturist_ @thinkingwest @KnowledgeArchiv @westernexile @HumbleFlow @TheGreatB00ks @JeremyRyanSlate @MemoryMedieval @MedievalScholar @romanhelmetguy @bronzeagemantis @AlexAndBooks_ @megha_lilly @roddreher @JoshPhillipsPhD @SpencerKlavan @andrewklavan @michaeljknowles @mattwalsh @PatrickDeneen @BarneysRubble0 @pleonidasp @WYOCathCollege @GregMcBrayer3 @alexpriou @PatrickDeneen @SeanBerube4 @alexpriou