Awell

JOE ROGAN: The computing power on your phone today. can you beat your phone at the highest level? MAGNUS CARLSEN: No. No chance. JOE ROGAN: That’s crazy. Wasn’t Deep Blue basically a whole stack of computers? And your phone is probably more powerful than that today. MAGNUS CARLSEN: It’s shocking. I have no chance against my phone. JOE ROGAN: So how do you even play against computers? MAGNUS CARLSEN: I rarely play against engines because they just make me feel stupid and useless. I think of them more as a tool. JOE ROGAN: But have computers actually changed how you understand chess? MAGNUS CARLSEN: Absolutely. Neural networks have improved our understanding of the game immensely. JOE ROGAN: What did you learn from them that humans weren’t already doing? MAGNUS CARLSEN: One big thing was long-term king safety. Humans used to push pawns mainly as an attacking tool. But the engines showed that you could push a pawn and create a weakness 20 or 30 moves later that would make the opponent’s king less safe. JOE ROGAN: So the computer basically showed you ideas that humans weren’t seeing. MAGNUS CARLSEN: Exactly. There was a period where you could clearly see which players were using these new neural-network ideas and which weren’t. JOE ROGAN: And you were one of the guys who figured it out early? MAGNUS CARLSEN: Yeah. My coach got into it very quickly, and we gained an advantage over almost everybody. JOE ROGAN: That’s insane. The machines aren’t just better at calculating, they’re actually teaching the best players how to think differently. MAGNUS CARLSEN: That’s probably the biggest impact they’ve had on chess.