@ScottAlanGordon

Latter-day Saint, President of https://xitter.cf/t.co/KtIy9WVsEO, College Instructor. BYU-Pathway, world traveler. Swiss-German mission.

fairlatterdaysaints.org
Joined October 2012
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In my talk at my grandson's baptism, I asked why Jesus sought out John the Baptist. Then I quipped, Jesus knew he was the right guy for baptism because his last name was "Thebaptist", duh! 😅 My daughter said, "No false doctrine, dad!" But the Bishop's daughter asked, "was that really his last name? I had to come clean.😅
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I went to a baptism this evening. The man had been active in a gang. He went to prison for a long time. He had time to reflect and decided he needed to change. After he got out, he prayed for help. 2 minutes after the missionaries knocked. God is good. He changed his life.
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I wish my evangelical colleagues, who all say they love us, would take 20 minutes and listen to President Oaks's talk.
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I went to a class on Mormonism at a local church. What do you think about the claims? Please comment on each of his 22 claims as to whether it is right or wrong. Let’s see how many he got right.
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Claim: There are grammatical and spelling errors. Mormons will blame it off the printer but that's the printer's job to get it right. If the Book of Mormon is the most correct book it wouldn't have those errors. In the Isaiah sections there were no grammar or spelling errors.
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Yes, there are grammar and spelling errors. It was dictated. Some of that grammar was based on a Hebrew style that had to be made into a better English style.
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Claim: The gold plates had some witnesses but some of those witnesses recanted later.
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As others have said, no witness ever recanted their testimony. A few critics claimed that happened, but witnesses spent their whole lives saying they never recanted their testimony.
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Claim: Mormons believe that all churches, all Christians, are an abomination to God.
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We don't believe that any Church, save the church of the devil, is an abomination to God.
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Claim: Mormons teach that no one was saved until Joseph Smith revealed the truth.
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This claim is probably about our view of the apostacy when we believe the priesthood keys were lost and the priesthood was withdrawn. But there were great Christians and other believers in the world. Plus, we do temple work for everyone. And everyone is "saved" in our faith.
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Claim: DNA showed that the Native Americans are not the lost tribes. When this came out, the Mormons changed the Book of Mormon; they modified it to say they have some DNA but not much.
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As has been stated by others, there is the Book of Mormon scripture, and there are helpful chapter headings and introductions. The headings and introductions are not scripture and have been modified from time to time. DNA neither proves nor disproves the Book of Mormon.
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Claim: When you disagree with something someone says, you ask for evidence. There is no archeological evidence of the Book of Mormon. But there is archeological evidence of the Bible.
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There is evidence of the Book of Mormon with NHM alters and the Spice trail.
Claim: The BOM teaches Jesus was born in Jerusalem. If you talk to a Mormon about this, they will tell you that he was born in the area of Jerusalem, But I checked and my Bible doesn't talk about the area around Jerusalem being called Jerusalem.
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Amarna letter EA 290, a letter from the ruler of Jerusalem to the Egyptian pharaoh. It describes a town “of the land of Jerusalem.” Some older translations identify that town as Bit-Lahmi—Bethlehem. Some people disagree with that, but it is a scholarly claim.
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Claim: Joseph Smith died in a gunfight at Carthage jail because they didn’t like him marrying other men’s wives, but he had a gun, so it was a gunfight. That's not exactly being a martyr in the sense that Peter or Paul was a martyr as he didn't go willingly to his death.
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Joseph willingly went to the jail knowing he was probably going to be killed and said so. The jailer allowed his friends to bring in a gun. the jailer must have been worried and must have trusted Joseph. Joseh wasn't even in a locked room.
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Claim: Mormons are non-trinitarian. They believe the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are not all deities.
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Mormons believe that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are all deities.
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Claim: The Book of Mormon teaches that the Native Americans are the lost tribes of Israel.
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It was then believed by many that the native Americans were the lost 10 tribes of Israel, lost in 721 bc when the Assyrians kicked them out. The BOM talks about a small group of people leaving Jerusalem in 600 bc. This isn't about that lost 10 tribes group.
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Claim: Joseph Smith taught that all denominations are an abomination.
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This claim is completely false. He taught that some of the creeds were. We see other denominations and fellow travelers and welcome them as they bring people closer to God.
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Claim: The Bible teaches there's a start to the universe but if you ask Mormons, they don't know where it all began and who was the original God.
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This was thrown out as you try to pin down "Mormons". But it is a trick Atheist question no different than asking How did God get here. God has not revealed the beginning of all things to us. All what we know is in Genesis. We don't know more and neither do you.
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Claim: Mormons believe God the Father was also a man who was exalted to become deity.
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This is an attempt to disparage God. It is to make us sound like we worship a different God. No. John 5:19, declares “the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he sees the Father do.” Just as Jesus took on the form of Man, is it not a possibility that the Father did likewise?
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Claim: Mormons teach that Jesus was a mortal man and a brother of Satan. Because of his obedience he was exalted to become deity.
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This is the most offensive claim to me. We don't believe that Jesus was a mortal man exalted to deity. At least not in the way you mean. We believe he is the eternal God. He came to earth and was born of Mary. But he was still God and still the Son of God.
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Claim: The Book of Mormon can’t be another testament of Jesus Christ because the Bible (Matt, Mark, Luke, John) has no contradictions and the Book of Mormon has contradictions with the Bible.
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Many of the so-called contradictions I have seen evangelicals bring up from the Book of Mormon are simply them applying their theology and not allowing alternate interpretations of scriptures.
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Claim: There were 500 witnesses to the resurrection of Jesus and no witnesses to the Book of Mormon. The Bible has first-hand witnesses, and the Book of Mormon has no firsthand witnesses.
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We have many witnesses to the coming forth of the Book of Mormon. Over 25 witnesses to the plates alone.
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Claim: Most Mormons don't know what they believe. I try to show them from their own books, but they deny it and say I have it wrong.
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My reply: You aren't listening to us. You are likely listening to your apologetics books that quote Walter Martin, Fawn Brodie, the Tanners, or Mormonism Unvailed [sic]. They take quotes out of context and apply an evangelical Christian worldview to it that we don't accept.
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