Doug Funnie compares $ZEC to $XRP and explains how simple moon math could push it past 5,000 dollars: Doug Funnie: "There is the crypto native intelligentsia that deeply understands narrative craft. And then there is the normie plumber who opens Coinbase every couple years when they hear things are up." "They are just going off vibes and very direct narrative craft. You think about how they think about Zcash. It is available on Coinbase, you can do one click buys, and it gets equated to Bitcoin." "Keep it simple: Bitcoin but secure against AI and quantum, Bitcoin but private, or just the next Bitcoin where the price is 1,000 instead of 100,000. The lizard part of our brain does this instant moon math." "Ripple added 100 billion dollars in market cap in a single week based off that easy narrative. If you apply that to Zcash, a hundred billion dollars is 5,000 or 6,000 dollars per token. That setup sees Zcash running to 5, 6, to 10K."

Wood explains why only flagship tokens survive while older meme coins bleed to zero: Wood: "This stock pair stuff is the only primitive that is new in the last two years, and this is the meta that is here to stay. I am inclined to think we do go higher and some of this stuff comes back. "I think all the memes get cooked. If you are holding anything from $LONG or $STONK that is an old meme, you are toast. You should sell it." " $AI is the flagship token of $LONG. You can hold that safely. If you are still holding $MOO, if you are still holding boner-coin:native, whatever, those are going to zero. $STONK, $SANDCAT, $KNOTS, those things go away. New coins will come up when fresh liquidity comes back." "I think you can safely hold $STONK, you can safely hold $AI, and expect to sell them for more money. I do not think you can hold anything else in those ecosystems and expect to make money. I think it is a euthanasia roller coaster down going forward."

Swizzle explains why trading meme coins is getting way too dangerous: Swizzle: "I think Doug is right that it is simple: Bitcoin goes down, that is why everything is going down. Bitcoin goes up, on chain can be good. People overcomplicate the reasoning because they are in their feelings and need somewhere to point blame." "That said, the fair concern is the level of resilience seems to be so much less with the on chain ecosystem. It gets bloodied and battered so much worse, to the point of basically no return." "If you are looking at the risk reward of this on chain economy, your windows are smaller, your ceilings are potentially lower, and the risk is exponentially higher because maybe three coins survive instead of eight or ten." "Is the lack of resiliency an opportunity because people are panicky, or do you just need to stay liquid for a new window to buy new stuff? If none of the top ecosystem coins have a resurgence, I would not like what that means for the ability to justify trading there."

Doug Funnie breaks down why Bitcoin's resilience against bad CPI and PPI data looks extremely bullish: Swizzle: "I'm curious your guys' take, I'd love to get Doug's take for how bad CPI and PPI was, the inflation data. I feel like it was worst-case scenario." "I posted something that was like, the market priced in bad inflation data and then the data somehow ended up being worse than expected. It was only like 11% odds on Polymarket for worst-case outcome for core inflation, and it ended up hitting worst-case scenario." "Stocks dumped when that happened. I would have thought Bitcoin would have dumped harder than it did, but for the time being it's held $80K, which is a little bit encouraging, a little bit bullish, unless it's just a delayed effect. But how do you guys feel about overall market, majors, crypto, equities, given the showering of bad news across the board?" Doug Funnie: "Yeah, I mean, Bitcoin looks really good. It's one of those things where there is no more reliable heuristic for if we're closer to a bottom or a top than when bad news stops dumping a coin or good news stops pumping it." "We've had literally every single bad thing thrown at Bitcoin that's imaginable, barring like an alien invasion. You'd be forgiven for thinking that the other shoe was gonna drop, and then hot CPI and PPI, and renewed stuff in Hormuz with oil and drivers of inflation, and then Saudi Arabia is just getting like giga nuked and oil infrastructure there is getting blah blah blah." "Like, 'Oh, Bitcoin should be trading at like $74K right now or $76K, it's back in the previous range,' blah blah blah. But like, it just kind of sweeps a wick and then V-reverses either instantly or a day later. What's it gonna take to drive Bitcoin lower? It's just been months of bad news and it keeps lurching higher and higher." "So, I don't know, stock indices are down between like half a percent to 2% today, which is kind of as bad as it gets, and Bitcoin is kind of like down a couple hundred dollars. Unless you're trading on high lev and shitting your pants on every tiny move, stuff kind of just looks good."

Wood jokes that Sats is a war survivor after missile debris hits his gym in Dubai during the recording: Wood: "Did you know that Sats is a war survivor?" Doug: "Um, no. No, I didn't." Sats: "Real shit. We were running Squad while that shit was going on. There was bombs going on off outside in Dubai..." Woods: "While Sats's gym got hit by a missile, and he's still showing up to the podcast!" Doug: "Are you serious?" Sats: "Yeah, it did. It really did." Swizzle: "It was a small, small missile." Sats: "It was debris! It was debris, it was debris. It carved out a hole in the top of the gym roof and landed on the floor." Doug: "That's insane." Sats: "Intense. I came back in longs. Crazy." Sats: "Crazy." Swizzle: "Really crazy, yeah." Doug Funnie: "Yeah, you got to." Swizzle: "That's crazy." Sats: "Channeled in the Doug Funnie there, just decided it was bullish. It was kind of..." Swizzle: "And it was, by the way." Sats: "It was, it was bullish. That was market bottom!" Wood: "That was like the bottom, that was literally the bottom when that happened." Swizzle: "Yeah, I think if you saw the size of the missile, that it really wasn't gonna do much, we were like, this is a nothing burger." Sats: "Yeah, I was alive, I was alive, so it was nothing." Doug Funnie: "Look, I mean, missile debris, you know, I mean you kind of just keep going. Add a little incline to the treadmill and keep it going at that point." Sats: "Yeah, real shit. Real shit."

Se Yong breaks down why onchain transparency exposes fake financial gurus: Se Yong: "The dark part about financialization and private groups and all these things is you actually don't know if these people are making money, right? Are they picking things out of a hat? Are they getting lucky? Can they do it time and time again? And I think nothing is as transparent as a blockchain." "So using this verifiable ledger to really take accountability and to let people know, 'Hey, this person has done this for 10 years. This person has maybe only done it half the time, but he's done it at exceptional pace,' or just give more context around what's really going on and get educated by the best as opposed to people who perceive themselves to be the best." David: "In TradFi, they wear their suits and everything, and they might look down upon crypto, but there's no transparency. There's no reputation. You don't know if they are actually making the money that they say they are. It would be interesting to see how many fakers there are in that area." Se Yong: "Absolutely. What is the saying, it's like when the tide goes out, you see all the naked bodies, or whatever it is, right? So if you get to a place where there are no tides and you can see everything transparently, I think it just creates a more equitable financial world for everyone."

Paul Erlanger breaks down why consumer investing platforms fail without a social discovery mechanism: Paul Erlanger: "Let's think about a little thought experiment. What if Instagram had no discovery?" "Your friend sends you a photo, you go and you click on that photo, you like the photo, you go to the comment section, you write some comments, you look at tags, etc. And then you go to look at something else." "All there is is a search bar. You need to know exactly what to search for, who to search for, what to search for. This is a terrible experience. No one would ever go on Instagram again." "And for consumer investing platforms, this is very easy to imagine. This is the current state of affairs. The best you get is you go onto a brokerage, and you have a list of assets, you see prices, you see market caps. There is literally no discovery mechanism. No wonder that most of the world is not investing in assets and that investing platforms have not broken into pop culture." "Finance has always been very social. It started with the New York Stock Exchange, a bunch of guys meeting on Wall Street, and they were, 'How do we have these new companies blossoming in this new country of America be publicly owned by the general people?' However, this has always been very fragmented." "You have WallStreetBets and r/stocks on Reddit, then you have people doing new generational content about personal wealth building on TikTok, then you have X Money and people talking about different cashtags on X." "This fragmentation has been the issue, cause there's never been a platform where you actually can transparently get information in real time and actualize on it. People discover through people, so why has there never been an investing platform that allows you to do so?"

Paul Erlanger explains how fomo turns raw blockchain data into a curated social discovery experience: Paul Erlanger: "The blockchain is the most transparent network ever created. Every single participant in the network has full transparency into every single transaction done in this network." "However, it's always been obfuscated through these clunky block explorers. Everyone recognizes the picture on the left, it's Ethereum, it's Etherscan. This is one transaction on Etherscan, no one's gonna read this." "On the right is the exact same transaction from a transaction in the feed on fomo. You see the buy very transparently, you get instantly updated when this happens, and you actually have an identity tied to the actual position." "And this is where fomo lands. fomo is the first transparent social graph for finance, where you have the social aspect as the underlying glue for all of these different markets. You could trade any asset in the world from anywhere with anyone. Currently, fomo is very much focused on onchain assets, but in the coming months we'll release an equities experience where you'll be able to trade any equity from anywhere in the world. Eventually we'll get into other asset types too." "And the key here is the social discovery, because everyone is building an 'everything app' and we truly believe that's very unintentional. You go on to Robinhood or Interactive Brokers or these other apps, you have your prediction markets next to your bank account, next to your retirement account, next to your equities product. And a lot of these assets you don't want to trade." "Well, on fomo, you could come on and you could follow the equities guys, you could unfollow the memecoin guys. If Murad is right, then people will only be following memecoin guys, but you could curate your own experience on the platform."

Paul Erlanger says fomo paid out $15M to creators in a single month: Paul Erlanger: "You ask, why would anyone want to do this? Well, you have creator rewards on fomo where the best people could start to earn a living." "So in September, fomo did $15 million in payouts to creators on our platform, and you could imagine that's only 3 million users, where this goes as we add hundreds of millions of users to this platform." "The same way as YouTube has paid out $100 billion in the past two years to creators on their platform, and X pays out creator rewards to users on their platform, on fomo we reward people for providing good information, for making good trades, and for the people that follow them. There's many people with hundreds of thousands, if not millions of followers on fomo, and now all of them can earn." "And then where is the value in that? On the other side is the new investor class. There's been this classification of people that have always been told that investing is not for them. Maybe they're into fashion and want to buy LVMH stock, maybe they have a certain thesis, but they've never been able to actualize that because there's never been a platform where they could access the information without an education barrier. But on fomo, the education barriers dissolve."

Paul Erlanger says community-driven moments like WallStreetBets reveal the real power behind retail investing: Paul Erlanger: "In 2012 up until 2020, Robinhood only had 5 million funded accounts in the United States. Then following the momentum of the new investor class that came through COVID from staying indoor, Robinhood went from 5 million to 12 and a half million accounts in one year." "And then when the whole WallStreetBets fiasco happened in late 2020, early 2021, Robinhood platform went from 12 and a half to 22.7 million users in less than a year. And to give you some context, it's been six years since then, and Robinhood currently has 28 million users. So this shows you the power of community-driven events." "There was this event on WallStreetBets, people were talking about AMC and GameStop stock, they formed a community, and then they went to a new platform and executed that vision." "So imagine now, instead of everything having to go perfect and lightning having to strike, you have a football field with millions of lightning rods where every single asset has a community built into it. And at any time, that community can actualize to actually grow a community around that asset. And that's exactly what fomo is building."

Paul Erlanger says fomo will onboard hundreds of millions of users by unlocking global assets for a new investor class: Paul Erlanger: "So in the world of AI where information is actually fully commoditized, because anyone can make a deepfake, anyone can have any form of media, and the only thing that people actually believe in is what they're holding." "You need a platform that has access to a new investor class where people might be interested in having certain takes." "People could onboard with Apple Pay and get access to information for the first time, and a whole new investor class is created." "My prediction is that in the next couple of years, fomo will onboard hundreds of millions, if not one billion people to the platform, and be the first platform for a new investor class that has never had access to global equities, trade anything with anyone from anywhere."

Se Yong outlines his long-term vision for fomo beyond crypto trading: David: "If trading is the first stage, how does that evolve as you go forward? Where, how are you going to get to that?" Se Yong: "Yeah, so I think that the trade is the new content, right? So trade is the thing that you actually center around, get information of, and get excited by." "It's kind of like, you know, maybe you read tweets, instead you're reading trades, and you're getting a sense of: this guy made this much money, these are his theses, this guy is very convicted in this coin or this asset class." "And for us, it's starting to expand into let's say more mature asset classes upstream. Tokenized equities, RWAs. We've recently become one of the top players in perps on Hyperliquid and other protocols as well, and there's a lot to do on that experience." "Things like yield, how do we create this one ecosystem where if there's anything you want to do to speculate financially, you can do it?" "I'd often say that this is something where everybody's racing towards this 'everything app.' We don't want to be an everything app. We want to be a very intentional app that is a social application that powers finance, and finance is a very broad category. It'll continue to grow, but yeah, we want to make the leap to not just be a crypto application." "In fact, we hope that crypto itself really dissolves into the background, becomes the great technology that powers everything, but can be abstracted away and create a very intuitive user experience all around."

Se Yong breaks down why fomo acquired Mobula's onchain data technology: David: "In August, you bought Mobula's onchain data technology. Why did you do this, what's yeah, what from this?" Se Yong: "So Mobula's an exceptional team that data indexes, you know, if not most, all of the data that exists on all the chains that we support today. So we work with them." "We've had a number of third-party providers we work with and still work with, but I think as we grow, it's important for us to bring things in-house because we want to customize them to be particular for our use case and not generic use cases." "So they do indexing, they do some routing, they do, you know, a lot of other things internally that have really given us a big leap in our experience. Excited to continue to work with their team to bring a lot of these things in-house." "At the end of the day, we want to make sure we have the best product entirely. So if it means that an external party just does it better, we will always route to them or always use them as a resource provider. But it's an ability for us to just, you know, absorb exceptional engineers and really just try to, you know, build a better product for the consumer."

Se Yong addresses claims about high slippage on fomo and explains how dynamic slippage works: David: "On Crypto Twitter, I've heard back and forth about slippage issues on fomo, some accounts saying it's as high as 45%." "Can you please clarify what's going on with the slippage claims? Are these people just engagement farming, what's going on?" Se Yong: "Yeah, I mean there's a mix. I think there's people that are frustrated, but there are also a lot of people who are engagement farming. And I think to clarify, that's specifically, it's a max slippage." "So we have a dynamic slippage that goes from smaller market caps all the way to broad market caps. And if you're trading Bitcoin, the slippage is probably automatically at 0.1%, right, because it's not going to be something that you want much slippage on." "So dynamically scales with your market cap. And the reason for this is, you know, we work with a lot of different providers, there's a lot of fast-moving assets." "So we kind of take the balance of, 'Hey, do you want to get a position in the asset, or do you want to fail via slippage?' Because you're never going to be able to get into a position in a $10K market cap coin or $100K market cap coin without getting some slippage parameters, especially given how volatile it is." "We actually did just roll out custom slippage, so you can actually determine your own slippage. Our view always has been try to make the educated decision for the consumer, but that doesn't work for everybody." "So if you're an advanced trader and you have certain settings in different protocols, you want to go and be able to do that yourself, it's peace of mind, it's peace of control, and those are things that we take very, very seriously." "Cross-chain trading at this scale has never existed, right? We're at the cutting edge of technology, we work with a lot of great projects and partners like routers, bridges, solvers, RPCs, and everything in between." "So there's going to be friction, there's going to be a lot of learning lessons, and we work very close with all these parties to make sure we can scale for tens of millions of transactions every hour."

Se Yong explains how fomo educates first-time crypto traders from day one: Se Yong: "A lot of these people we have to re-educate, and sometimes educate for the first time, right? Because I think you have this fundamental belief that anybody who comes to trade crypto has traded something else before." "But one of the coolest things is a lot of these people are trading on fomo for the first time ever, right?" "So you think about, they don't understand things like, 'What is an order book?' or 'What is price impact?' or 'What is slippage?' All these things that you kind of assume people know if they've ever traded any markets. So it's cool to re-educate and educate people there, and it's our job to make sure that people understand exactly what's going on, how to learn more, and education is a big part of fomo in our ecosystem." David: "How are you educating this? How does this, can you give me an example of how this education works?" Se Yong: "100%. So we do a lot of effort in, let's say, different timeframes of education. The first thing that you get when you sign up to fomo is an email explaining, 'Hey, here's what the fomo application is, let us walk you through it. Here are the dangers, here are the shortcomings, here are the things that you should be aware of.' And this is actually a 10-part series." "So over the course of a few weeks after you onboard, it comes every week. We have roughly a 30% open rate, which I think is incredible via email. So people want to learn, they want to educate. Sometimes they respond and we have dialogue with them." "We do daily summaries of what's going on in the market, not just in crypto, but why the S&P fell today, what is the Fed fund announcement, what is interest rates, what is macro, and trying to contextualize it so you can learn as a beginner. And on top of that, we do weekly newsletters as well." "Our job is to use in-app features like theses so that people can actually crowdsource and do these together. We have a few things we're excited to roll out related to AI summaries and syntheses of things that are going on within the application, but that should be another step in just giving people more concepts."

Se Yong reveals how the idea for fomo started from a birthday trip: Se Yong: "What is the thing that I want to do, and if I don't, I will always regret it? And I think for myself it was starting a company and giving myself a chance to prove, you know, that there's a problem out there that's worth solving, and that we are the right people to do it." "So spent quite a lot of time just ideating and trying to think about what is the thing the world needs most, and I think we came to making onchain more accessible to the masses." David: "When did that, when did the germ of fomo start?" Se Yong: "It was about two years ago. So we ideated for let's say the better part of a year, really wanted to find the right thing. About let's say 23 months ago, took a birthday trip out with Paul, who's one of my co-founders, and we just talked about what are the problems that need to be solved." "How do we build something that people, you know, can feel, can derive joy from, and we can share with our friends and family? And ultimately we thought we needed to make onchain trading more accessible, but also accessible in terms of not just using the products, but also understanding the markets, what's going on, what are the top people doing, what are they talking about, and things in between." "So we're coming up on the two year mark right around December from incorporation, and it's been a great journey."

Se Yong explains why small details matter most in consumer crypto apps: David: "SocialFi has been done before, there's tons of wallets that have trading and tons of apps that do trading and stuff, but it really is just like, I don't know, that last like 5% that just really, really matters in this case." Se Yong: "Especially in consumer, right? I think people like to look at the big features and think, okay, you know, there's 90% similarity in the big features, but the devil's in the details in consumer, and I think that gets lost on a lot of people." "The hundreds, the thousands, the tens of thousands of decisions that stack up to make, you know, the experience more joyful and intuitive, those things often go overlooked. But I think if you talk to people who have done it, those are the things that really, really matter."

Se Yong explains the evolution of social graphs and why fomo is building the speculation graph: David: "I didn't fully appreciate the kind of social hmm social aspirations I would say, of it of like a just a new completely social experience. Was that the big picture vision?" Se Yong: "100%. I think we've had this view that you know, social graphs have historically evolved over time. I think Facebook has been the company that's done it through multiple eras, right?" "From the personal you know, know your friends and connect with people, to the interest graph era where you're seeing a lot of content before the person and discovering new people as a result, to what we are calling the speculation graph." "Which is going to be, as AI begins to commoditize more and more content and things get easier to produce, you're going to actually have moments to go viral quite easily. Normal person create TikTok, create Instagram, can go viral, get million views overnight. I think that that makes it a lot less desirable, and fame itself through media becomes a little bit more commoditized." "So where do you start looking? Well, it's things that cannot be commoditized in dollars and risk, and those are canonical languages no matter where you are in the country or where you are in the world. So we think that the next biggest social graph is going to be centered around risk, reward, and being right over time. So it's a really big thesis and a long dated view that we have that this is going to be the next biggest social graph in the world."

Se Yong explains how fomo grew to 3 million users without incentive programs: David: "fomo went from what, 625,000 users in June, 1.9 million by the end of August, are those numbers roughly correct?" Se Yong: "Yeah, I think we're approaching, we should end 3 million by the end of September. So we've been okay adding a lot of users." David: "What happened this summer?" Se Yong: "I think markets are tailwinds, right? We had a fundamental belief that you build a great product, you allow people to find more accessibility in both assets, but also discovery, and then you create a platform where market conditions turn and you can benefit from it." "I think one of the things that people don't realize is we built from the bottom of the bear, right? We launched in May of 2025. This was arguably one of the worst onchain markets of all time. A lot of companies would have pivoted. We had this fundamental belief that all things are coming onchain and we can invent a new class and reinvent what SocialFi look like, so we've just been cracking at it." "And I think that you get rewarded when you do the right things, and you don't take shortcuts, and you don't incentivize things without really understanding why. So we've never done an incentive program, we've never really tried to create false narratives or do any of these things. We just really focus on product and distribution."

Se Yong explains why rival apps like Robinhood shouldn't worry about competing over crypto market share: David: "So at one point, I'm not sure what it is today, but at one point you represented the vast majority of Robinhood Chain transaction volume, right, activity, and it came through fomo. It wasn't coming through the Robinhood app. I imagine their app team in Robinhood was not particularly happy about that." Se Yong: "Yeah, I mean, it's tough to talk about the internal dialogues of Robinhood wallet or other wallets or other trading applications." "But for us, you know, we fundamentally believe that this pie is still so small that it just really doesn't make sense, right? Crypto as an industry is still so nascent, we're such a small asset class, we have such small real world adoption that it's kind of like fighting at the kiddie table, right?" "And I think that none of them view each other to really be enemies or rivals or competitors. They're kind of just trying to get their foot under them and trying to grow and graduate, and that's how we view it." "This market is going to be 100, if not 1,000 times bigger in the next few years, and we honestly think there's room for everybody to benefit. And like I said about the chains, let the best products win."