
I interview the world's top writers. New episodes every Wednesday, and this is a feed of the very best clips. My personal account: @david_perell
New York, NY
Joined March 2026
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"Weeping may be the closest experience human beings have to actual enlightenment.
Because in weeping, you have given up. You've broken down. Whatever control you wanted over the world has slipped out of your hands.
Whatever way you wanted to keep heartbreak at bay, whatever way you wanted to keep grief at bay, they've all been broken down by the grief, the loss, the person leaving you, by the diagnosis you've just been given in the hospital.
You've actually dropped down below this perimeter, and it breaks apart through that overflow of emotions. The reason you're weeping is you haven't built a body that can hold that revelation. But now you're just about to do it. You're breaking open this controlled edge that you've had, and it's breaking out of there. You're becoming larger through the weeping.
It's worth trying to have a practice of weeping, even if you can't go into full weeping, to feel the emotion as much as you can, because emotion is a doorway to something much deeper.
Camus, the great French philosopher, said: 'live to the point of tears.'"
— David Whyte
Steven Pressfield explains the "60 scenes" method:
"A movie is about 60 scenes and so it can be on index cards, three by five cards, and screenwriters do this all the time."
"If you imagine a clothesline and you're hanging, you might only have three scenes. You have like a great ending, Captain Ahab and the whale and duke it out here."
"How do we fill in the blanks? What has to happen there? What has to happen at the very start?"
"You can do 60 scenes and just keep changing them as you get better ideas."
Long gone are the days where authors could just write and let everything else take care of itself. Jodi Picoult explains:
"Nobody can sit in their ivory tower anymore and just write books and expect them to find their way to the masses. Doesn't work that way."
"There's a lot of chaff out there. And if you've got wheat, you gotta make sure people know you got wheat."
Gustave Flaubert was a method writer.
Robert Greene says that's what makes Madame Bovary so alive:
"Flaubert was this creature of the right word, and he would sometimes spend three days trying to figure out the right word for this one sentence."
"He gets very much caught up in his stories. So when he wrote Madame Bovary, he was, like, literally becoming Madame Bovary. He becomes the characters that he writes about."
"But at the same time, he's a very careful, conscientious writer who's pouring over every sentence. They're not contradictory. The two go together."
"But because he's inside her world and he's a very disciplined writer who focuses on how language can create a world, he's able to bring the two together.
That's sort of the dance that the greatest writers go through."
"There's no points awarded for difficulty in writing."
"If you have to reread the paragraph four times, that's not on you. That's the author's fault."
"It's supposed to be easy to read. And you can be deep and insightful and communicate well."
"A lot of the philosophers that have been translated over the years weren't the best writers. They're very deep thinkers. You could learn a tremendous amount from them, but you really have to crank the gears in your brain to get it."
"I think there's other people who can tell a story that can be equally profound that you can just get."
-Morgan Housel
"Nobody thinks they're very good at it while they're doing it."
Michael Pollan has been writing for 40 years. He's written multiple best-sellers. And yet:
"Every time you start, every time you face that white screen, is, you know, why doesn't this come more easily?"
"There's a tendency to think if it's hard, it's not for me, or I'm not good at it, or I'm not the right person. But it's hard for everybody, to one degree or another."
"And I still struggle, you know, every time I sit down to write, play games with myself, how much I have to produce before I can go have a snack."
"So just because you find it difficult doesn't mean you're not born to do it."
Robert Greene is rereading Dostoevsky to make sense of America today:
"I was reading Demons. It's all about the nihilists in Russia who were kind of the starting point for the Russian revolution and a period where nihilism was in its ascendancy. And I kind of compare it to what's going on in America right now."
"He loves the marginalized in culture. He loves the prostitutes that everyone's forgotten about. He loves criminals. He literally loves them in a Christ-like way."
"Even the evil characters, the villains, he brings to life with this sort of love. That universe of not judging is an act of grace."
"I read Brothers Karamazov when I was 16. I probably didn't understand a word of it, but I was so entranced by this guy."
Brothers Karamazov was Einstein’s favorite novel, a verdict he shared with Freud, Hillary Clinton, and Murakami. Dostoyevsky was Pope Francis’s favorite author. Indeed, he approvingly quoted Elder Zosima; perhaps an interesting case of art molding life. At the risk of betraying my relative shallowness and inferiority, I confess that I did not love it.
Written in the shadow of the death of Dostoyevsky’s son (also Alyosha), and, more broadly, after a life of repeated tragedy, Karamazov attempts most of all to address the problem of evil in Christianity. Ivan presents a trenchant argument, asking how the suffering of children may possibly be explained given the existence of a supposedly benevolent God (Dostoyevsky collected real court cases for Ivan), culminating in Ivan’s famous return of the ticket.
The book gives some sense for how dislocating the nineteenth century must have been. The ascendant authority of science, the spread of materialist philosophy, the doctrine of evolution, the aftermath of the French revolution and its supposedly enlightened empiricism: in Karamazov, we get the feeling that finding some kind of consilience wasn’t just an abstract philosophical challenge, but a source of intense spiritual torment. If inherited tradition is no longer an adequate basis for faith, why would we rationally cleave to an apparently irrational theology? All of this was in the air: it was only two years later that Nietzsche declared God to be dead.
Perhaps demonstrating the utility of the novel as a medium, Dostoyevsky does not even attempt to solve the problem, but merely to illustrate a response, showing how individuals (Alyosha, Elder Zosima) may in the face of the inherent injustice present in the world nonetheless pursue lives of benevolence and charity: theodicy-by-example. In so doing, Dostoyevsky tacitly concedes that none of the teetering justifications expounded over the centuries can actually survive critical pressure and be defended through pure logic.
Ultimately, though, I don’t find myself being fully compelled by Dostoyevsky’s characterization of the problem or his proposed solution. As another sprawling confrontation with and attempt to reconcile the problem of evil, Grossman’s Life and Fate is maybe a useful counterpoint. Unlike Karamazov, Life and Fate shows actual people confronting great wickedness. Ikonnikov, a small but important figure, is ordered to help in the construction of a gas chamber. He refuses, with full awareness of the consequences that will ensue. The Karamazovs, by contrast, live middle class lives unvisited by greater events. Ivan has money, education, and leisure; his torment is the invention of his own mind and thus a kind of self-indulgence. Even Alyosha, the novel’s most sympathetic character, is never tested. His crisis is spiritual: there is a slightly comic kerfuffle about Zosima’s noisome corpse, which challenges his faith, but no circumstance requires him to stake his life or even his comfort.
Thus, a fundamental issue with Karamazov is that the problems of the book are on some level fake: they’re the self-inflicted derangements of febrile and dysregulated men. How much can or should we learn from the insane?
To be charitable to Dostoyevsky, we might say that he understood the spiritual dislocation of the era that later gives rise to the larger evils of totalitarianism in the twentieth, even prefiguring them in the Grand Inquisitor. (Dostoyevsky explored this theme in greater detail a few years earlier in Demons.) Camus in 1959: “The real nineteenth century prophet was Dostoevsky, not Karl Marx.” In this interpretation, the problems in Karamazov set the stage for those in Life and Fate.
Maybe. At least as a work of art, I’m not sure that this anticipation is enough to make the book stand on its own. In Karamazov, one continually wonders why the brothers don’t just pull it together. Dostoyevsky seems to transpose his own inner depths and spiritual torment onto his characters, but most people are not tortured writers, and it does not feel that the unhingedness of the characters is ever fully earned.
In attempting to address evil, Grossman’s conclusion is ostensibly similar to Dostoyevsky’s: the only resolution lies in senseless kindness. For Dostoyevsky, this message is embodied in Alyosha, who represents a kind of fervent innocence. For me, however, it’s not clear that Alyosha ever fathoms the realities and extremities of evil, and hence he’s not fully persuasive: does he even reckon with the misdeeds of his brothers?
Grossman is willing to engage head on. Far beyond gruesome newspaper anecdotes or neurotic and volatile siblings, Ikonnikov directly experiences the Holodomor in Ukraine and then the murders of the Jews. He has no patience for the kind of revolutionary ideas that animated Ivan’s contemporaries: “whenever we see [the dawn of an eternal good], the blood of old people and children is always shed.”
Alyosha believes in the Church and is willing to set aside its failures to address suffering. The book closes on his declaration that all shall rise again. That is, Alyosha does not accept the tragedy of Ilyusha, an innocent boy’s death, but rather seeks to deny and escape it. “We shall see each other and shall tell each other with joy and gladness all that has happened.”
Life and Fate flatly rejects providential resolution. The heavens may be empty, and there is no greater meaning in evil. We can simply choose (freedom the other great theme of Life and Fate) to pursue acts of charity, generosity, and comfort:
“Yes, as well as this terrible Good with a capital ‘G’, there is everyday human kindness. The kindness of an old woman carrying a piece of bread to a prisoner, the kindness of a soldier allowing a wounded enemy to drink from his water-flask, the kindness of youth towards age, the kindness of a peasant hiding an old Jew in his loft. The kindness of a prison guard who risks his own liberty to pass on letters written by a prisoner not to his ideological comrades, but to his wife and mother.”
These acts don’t ennoble the suffering but are instead justified on their own terms. Such altruism cannot become a catechism, as clearly lies in Alyosha’s destiny (and Karamazov was planned before Dostoyevsky's death as the first of two works); instead, our kindness must be senseless. And we should presume no salvation in adherence: Alyosha imagines a kind of sacred tutelage, but Ikonnikov is unceremoniously shot.
Karamazov doesn’t show true evil, and Dostoyevsky’s solution, such as it is, involves a kind of denial, or at least evasion through metaphysics. Grossman saw it directly, and instead argues, humanistically, that we should be kind just because.
—
If Dostoyevsky came to his works by trying to understand and depict Russian society, they in turn became tapestries for others to understand national souls.
In the aftermath of WWI, Russia was the great power defined in opposition to the West. As Germany tried to rediscover its own soul in the wreckage of defeat, it looked east to Russia, and frequently to Dostoyevsky himself.
Carl Jung thought that the German people had a kind of Karamazovian quality. In particular, he believed that Christianity had disciplined them without fully transforming the impulses beneath their ostensibly civilized conduct: the “Germanic barbarian” was divided into upper and lower halves. Religion had domesticated the former while leaving the latter untamed. Waning faith consequently threatened to release forces that its authority had long restrained: “As the Christian view of the world loses its authority, the more menacingly will the ‘blond beast’ be heard prowling about in its underground prison, ready at any moment to burst out with devastating consequences. When this happens in the individual it brings about a psychological revolution, but it can also take a social form.”
Dostoyevsky was reputedly invoked on a weekly basis at Max Weber’s Sunday gatherings. At the beginning of Reflections of a Nonpolitical Man, Thomas Mann’s later-repudiated 1918 nationalist polemic, he quotes approvingly Dostoyevsky’s characterization of Germany as the “protesting Western empire”, never quite adopting or feeling at home with the inheritance of Rome. In the same year, Spengler wrote Decline of the West, and explicitly perceived in Russia a youthful vigor, primitiveness, and irrationality that contrasted with the senile high culture of the German and Western worlds. In Magic Mountain, Mann later used Clavdia Chauchat to personify the seductive dangers of Eastern (i.e. Russian) illogic.
Hermann Hesse declared that, for all their differences, Fyodor, Dmitri, Ivan, and Alyosha are actually all of one type; the Russian man. In them, he perceived that “the ideal of the Karamazov, primeval, Asiatic, and occult, is already beginning to consume the European soul”, which was leading to the downfall of Europe. In Hesse’s conception, the Russian man rejects inherited ethics and morals, and even beneficent Alyosha represents an “amoral impartiality.” Man is, Hesse says, halfway between animals and higher consciousness; the former restrained through the process of civilization and domestication. The Karamazovs represent the fraying of the ties.
Hesse proceeds, ominously, to notice that the Germans in particular are more vulnerable than any European people to the temptations of “all those evils which one may regard in different ways, but which collectively signify the Karamazov.” While he was prescient in anticipating some of what would follow, he was in the end too sanguine in his hope that the spiritual dislocation could remain limited to that. “It is possible that the whole Downfall of Europe will play itself out only inwardly, only in the souls of a generation, only in changing the meaning of worn-out symbols, in the dis-valuation of spiritual values.” Alas!
In general, it is interesting to trace the mutual obsession between Russia and Germany: how preoccupied each was with the respective supposedly corrupting influences; how urgent the question of the national soul was felt to be. Many of the analyses seem a bit contradictory—Hesse actually inverts Dostoyevsky, for whom “everything is permitted” nihilism is a Western import for which Russian Orthodoxy is the cure—but there’s a striking intensity in the attempts to apprehend.
Most of all, I’m struck by how anachronistic it all feels today: a country’s writers investigating the national soul and the nation’s fate through the lens of foreign literature.
Which novels or works of art do we use to understand our contemporary issues? Should we be using such works? Do they inform or do they mislead? Today, the US worries a lot about China, but this mostly manifests at the level of trade balances, AI policy, and military prowess. We don’t seem to worry much about the spiritual force of Chinese ideals, and for all of the policy fractiousness, China continues to import and absorb American culture with enthusiasm that is mostly undimmed. There is a genre of jeremiad and cultural analysis in the US that rhymes a little with early twentieth century German criticism, but it today tends to be much more clinical, hinging around PISA scores, smartphones, lower fertility, and not around higher aspirations and ideals as such. So, to what extent should there be analyses of the national soul? And to what extent should they connect with major novels and works of art?
Computers did to architecture what AI is doing to writers:
"When you had to design a building, it was this process of working on paper and sketching things out. It was like art in a way."
"At some point, it got computerized. You program it, and out comes your building."
"You go to a hotel, and the faucet is in a location that doesn't make any sense. The whole building is designed that way. It's a formula."
"People now don't know how to write because they depend on AI. They become lazy."
"The whole art of architecture is disintegrating because people don't know how to design and sketch anymore."
-Robert Greene
"Now things are so expensive, and there's so much pressure to make money."
Robert Greene on why it's harder to make a living as an artist today:
"Back in the day, you could be an artist and life wasn't so expensive.
You could afford to write something a little bit unconventional and you'd still make a little bit of money, but you could still afford your loft in New York."
"If you're a writer, how are you gonna make money? Well, you could become a professor, and that's pretty soul sucking. Or you can write books. Do you know how hard that is?"
"It's easy for me. I am so lucky. But for most writers, you get a $20,000 to $50,000 advance. I have to write the book in a year, otherwise I can't live on it. And how often do you see royalties?"
"So you have to write the book quickly, and you have to make a living. And that's what I think is making writing suffer, because it's no longer something that you can just take your time with."
Taylor Tomlinson on the key to good crowd work:
"I like to do crowd work at my live shows, but I do it in a very structured way. I usually sprinkle it throughout the show every 15 to 20 minutes."
"I ask the audience a specific question that is related to the hour. So it's generally something that I do wanna know. I think that's kind of the key to crowd work."
"If it goes weird, I'll deflect or I'll make it about me. I never want anyone to feel bad or regret talking to me."
"Sometimes it goes somewhere. Sometimes it doesn't. It's why I'm so meticulous about writing out my set and having clear transitions so that I can get back into the hour really seamlessly."
"People have forgotten about stand up, the actual art of it."
This is what Mark Normand told me about how comedy has changed:
"It's a bittersweet thing because before, you had the industry. When's David Letterman gonna put me on? When's The Tonight Show gonna put me on? You had to wait for the industry, but there was a lot less work. You can do the same hour for ten years."
"Now it's, I gotta cut a clip. I gotta tweet. I gotta post something. I gotta write about the news. I gotta write my own act. I gotta do a podcast. I gotta do another guy's podcast. I gotta go on the road."
"Now you can make your own career, but you're gonna do a lot more work."
@marknorm
Conan O'Brien exposes the brutal truth: everyday internet creators have completely destroyed the late-night TV monopoly
"Now you're competing with... hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of millions of people are making funny videos"
"NBC in particular capitalized on it... you have Steve Allen, then you have Jack Paar, then you have Johnny Carson... and it's a monopoly... and it's a giant machine that fires out cash"
"HBO, Cinemax, these other things are coming up... it's a little like Detroit and automobiles. Like, the things just started to change"
"For years we were working really hard to do something innovative and creative at night. Now you're competing with, how many people in America are posting videos every day, or worldwide?"
"If you do the math, nine of them are going to be one of the funniest things you've ever seen. Those come out every day. That's what you're competing against."
Mark Normand on the difference between Larry David and Seinfeld:
"Larry has a darker bend. He's a little more sex, race, Judaism, religion. He'll go deeper into that stuff."
"You see it on his show. He's got shows about Nazis, and there's one episode where his shoes get muddy, so he goes to the Holocaust museum and takes the old shoes, which is hilarious, but Seinfeld would never do that."
"Seinfeld's more like zoning in on minutiae."
"He has a great one where he's out to dinner as a double date, him and his wife, some other guy and his wife. And the other guy goes, 'I'll get the check.' And he goes, 'Wow. Thank you. Thank you, Bob.' And the wife goes, 'Well, aren't you gonna thank me?' And he's like, 'Why would I thank you? It's his money.'"
"Faith without doubt is a dogma and dogmas are very dangerous."
Novelist Elif Shafak says the same about atheists who are certain of their non-belief:
"People who are very sure of their atheism, they want to get rid of faith."
"I think faith can also be a secular concept. It doesn't always have to be a religious concept."
"When you start writing a novel, you really don't know what you're doing, but something tells you to keep going. For me, that's a secular act of faith."
"When you fall in love with someone, you don't know if that person is the right person for you, but you do go with it."
"I am interested in people who are not afraid of saying I don't know."
"Science fiction isn't a genre. It's a setting."
Andy Weir, author of The Martian and Project Hail Mary, on what we get wrong about sci-fi:
"You can have a science fiction romance. You can have a science fiction action movie. You can have a science fiction drama."
"Isaac Asimov made a science fiction noir detective series, Caves of Steel. Noir detective is a genre, but the setting was science fiction."
Andy Weir began writing The Martian as a series of blog posts. It ended up becoming a best-seller. Here's the story of how he did it:
"I'll just post [The Martian] to, like, basically a blog post, and I'll make it a serialized story, kinda like the old days of… Sherlock Holmes[, which] was serialized storytelling in the Strand magazine."
"People said, like, well, I love your book, but I hate your website, which is fair."
"I put it on Amazon via Kindle Direct Publishing. And so I charged the minimum, which at the time was 99¢. So I'm like, okay, everybody. You can read it on my website. You can download the e-reader version from my website, or you can pay Amazon a buck to put it on your Kindle for you. And people paid the buck."
"People said like, ah, now here's an opportunity for me to give money. I'm gonna buy the book even though I've already read it."
"So Amazon's automated system went well, this is selling well, which popped it into the list of, like, top sellers, which got other people's attention, which… so it snowballed from there."
"It doesn't put butts in seats."
A set on late-night TV used to be a comedian's "I made it" moment. Mark Normand says those days are gone:
"You work on the set, and then it comes out. And you're like, hey. That got maybe a 100,000 views, but then you can just shoot a video of you on a comedy club, post it, and it'll get a million."
"You only do it now just for the fun of it."
"I hate to say that because it's an American tradition."
@marknorm
R.F. Kuang teaches her students to write emotions without naming the emotion itself:
"Emotions are not these abstract concepts that are applied to the body. All feelings are is how your body is reacting to some piece of information."
"We did this exercise where I passed out these kindergarten level silhouette diagrams of the human body. Suppose you just got a call and you got a promotion. Tell me where that sits in the body. Describe only what is happening on a physical level."
"About half the people in the class were like, when I get a piece of really good news, I am immediately scared about, like, when is the other shoe going to drop?"
"You have a much more interesting puddle of feelings, multiple feelings that are going on at once that is so much more interesting to read about than just Bob got the call, that he was promoted, and he felt great.
That gives the reader nothing."
"I did seven eulogies by the time I was 32."
Harlan Coben's life has been marked by loss. That's become the dominant theme across his books.
"Agatha Christie had dead people. Philip Roth had the Jewish experience... I write about missing people, I think, because there's such hope there."
"When someone goes missing, there's a chance you can be redeemed, a chance you can still find them. When someone's murdered, they're dead."
"Justice doesn't really interest me. Retribution doesn't really interest me. Punishment doesn't really interest me. What interests me is hope."
"You make a rough version of the movie seven or eight times before you go to final animation."
A behind the scenes look at how Pixar makes its movies:
"When I got there, I was like, what's the secret sauce? Is it the people or is it the system? After about six months, I realized it's really both."
"I wrote the first draft of Toy Story 3. We made what they call a set of reels, which is a rough animatic of the movie. And then based on the feedback that we got to that, I wrote another ten more drafts, and then we made a second set of reels."
"What's great about the Pixar system is that you write, and then you direct, and then you edit...There's a way that you beta test your story."
"It's sort of a series of concentric rings. So the first set of reels, which is usually pretty terrible, you show to twenty, twenty five, 30 people. And then you always wanna preserve fresh eyes."
"By the time you get up to your seventh or eighth screening, you're showing it to everybody and his grandmother that you can pull in."
-Michael Arndt (Toy Story 3 Writer)
Francine Prose wrote a book about Peggy Guggenheim.
She told me about the "ditzy" heiress who saved modern art:
"Men of her generation would invite me to lunch to tell me how stupid she was. And I would go like, I don't think she was that stupid."
"She left Europe with all this art packed up in her crates with her household laundry stuff to avoid paying taxes."
"A lot of Picassos and Giacomettis would have been taken by the Nazis. And that was really their definition of degenerate art. And she saved it. I mean, the fact that it exists at all."
"She had a great eye. I mean, she was the first person who really got Jackson Pollock."


