The Silence Tax: How a Once Beloved Men’s Organization Collapsed by its Own Hand open.substack.com/pub/devils…

Retro Interview this week from Reid Baer's collection is Cliff Barry, recent MKP Founder's Award winner from the controversial 40 year anniversary in Tucson. In November 2003 Cliff talks about the difference between men and women. How do you think that would fly today? Cliff Barry Knows Shadow There's a difference between men and women. And our bodies are not the same either, according to Cliff Barry. Barry - the modern guru of "shadow work" in the men's movement - said he believes men and women are different emotionally. And we're wounded in different ways, too. "Every man has a little voice on his shoulder that tells him he's bad," Barry said, referencing an idea from Robert Bly. "Every woman has a little voice that says she's not as good as the boys." There are two basic models that help create a "safe container" for people to do their emotional work, he said. "In one, a leader energetically steps into the center and provides positive direction and everyone decides if they're going to follow. This is the 'Warrior' and 'Sovereign' energy." The other approach is more the product of the "Lover" and "Magician." "This is the 'if you build it they will come' philosophy," Barry said. "The facilitator works indirectly to make the container safe in such a way that something [shadow] can appear that ordinarily wouldn't." (The term "shadow" was coined by the great C.G. Jung.) Formerly a minister, Barry studied the science of symbols and sacred mythology for twelve years. With over fifteen years facilitation experience, he has led workshops across the United States and Canada as well as influence many protocols within The ManKind Project. Cliff Barry has the unique heritage of having been born and reared in a Swedenborg community in Glenview, Illinois. "I had the same nine classmates for nine years straight," he recalled. "It was an incredibly stable environment that had a profound effect on me." Emannuel Swedenborg (1688-1772) was a noted Swedish scientist, philosopher and theologian. "While they [Swedenborg followers] are Christian, they read the Bible exactly the way Robert Bly reads the Iron John myth," Barry continued. "They taught me to read scripture, and life, and people as speaking myth in which there was a deeper meaning." Barry said most of Christianity and western culture define life in terms of the dualism of "good people" and "evil people." A child must then deal with the possibility that he is one of the "evil" ones, he noted. The natural result is that many "believers" are encouraged to shun a substantial portion of who they are and project the painful shaming onto others. "Your scar is your star," Barry intoned, hopefully, quoting one of his clients. "There's gold to be had in our shadows." Barry and his partners Mary Ellen Blandford and Susan DeGenring focus their Jungian based workshops on the four basic archetypes: Lover, Warrior, Magician, King (Sovereign). The archetypes essentially are a spiritual representation of the true nature of God (or Gods), Barry said. "When I first saw this work I realized in an instant that men were being reborn spiritually, not completely, but substantially." John Miller, a leader in the ManKind Project, has participated in two of Barry's workshops. "I learned techniques to help facilitate emotional work into very deep places," Miller acknowledged. "I appreciate Cliff Barry's ability to distill this information in a simple and effective way." Something must be working right as 29 facilitators schooled in this process are continuing the good work around the world. With a nod to Robert Moore, Doug Gillette and Ron Hering, Barry gratefully acknowledges those who have helped create his method of dealing with men's shadows. "This four-quarter approach is known for the safety and freedom it provides to those who choose to grow by facing and processing their shadows," he concluded. Contact Cliff Barry, Shadow Work® Coaching, 7215 W County Rd. 24, Loveland, CO 80538, 888.406.0703 or 970.203.0400 or [email protected] or coachingpartners.net 📷

Robert Bly: 2005 Interview with Reid Baer The current leader of the "men's movement" is first and foremost a poet. In a telephone interview from his native home in Minnesota, Bly was more interested in discussing the art of poetry than men's issues. "A poet is not something special," he said, "just someone who takes his own feelings seriously and maybe has an accidental gift for language." The perception of a soft-spoken, sensitive poet speaking in measured muffled tones, is blown away with the often gruff and straight-shooting Bly. "Poetry is an art and when people don't know how to do it, it's boring to everybody." In an earlier interview with the editor of The Prose Poem, however, Bly cautions men not to let "fear cut down your ability to play (write)." "Instead of playing, you're looking for the right associations, the ones an educated person might have. The ability to make leaps has something to do with how safe you feel, because if you can't feel safe, then you can't go back to your childhood." Bly's childhood began in western Minnesota in 1926, born of Norwegian stock. He studied at Olfa College as well as Harvard where he graduated in 1950. In the early 1990s he edited his own personal favorite work, The Rag and Bone Shop of the Heart, an anthology of poems for men. "I still see men carrying that book around," Bly noted. "I think it's the best thing we did. It's still being printed." The anthology was a collaboration with his friends James Hillman and Michael Meade, authors in their own rights. Bly is a National Book Award Winner and translator. His books include Iron John and The Sibling Society. "I think that traditionally in our culture, women are trained by their mothers to express feelings and judge feelings," Bly stated. "When men's work started, men felt they were given permission to do this as well." The poet said even though there are men who mock literature, there are many more who know "the blessing of a poem." "I like very much the good that it does men when they start bringing out their feelings." Bly suggested men follow the example of poet William Stafford and write every day. For decades Bly has been conducting conferences around the world specifically designed to help men become more expressive. "At these conferences many men have never talked about their feelings, but they will to each other in a group of men. Poetry is the act of taking those feelings and adding "some responsibility in language," he explained. John Lee, an author Flying Boy and friend of Bly's was involved in the field of psychology for many years before he wrote creatively. "He gave himself permission," Bly said. "At first he said, 'I'm not a poet" and then he wrote three books and said 'maybe I am a poet.'" Bly's is currently working on publishing the works of Tim Young, Building in Deeper Water and White Men Don't Dance in America. Lamenting the lack of venues for men's writing, Bly said he was publishing the work himself. With an eye toward the next generation of emerging writers Bly offered this piece of advice : "(Poets) need to bring in specific images and not just abstract life." "Poetry is about encouraging men's feelings," he concluded. "I'm so glad to be working with men. It's a tremendous privilege." © 2005 Reid Baer

Interview with Bill Kauth, "Warrior Journal" November 2003 menstuff.org/columns/overboa…

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Sacred Kings

Sacred Kings Monday night meeting with Founder Bill Kauth,  Monday at 8:00 pm Eastern / 7:00pm Central / 6:00pm Mountain Time / 5:00 pm Pacific Join Zoom Meeting zoom.us/j/4803137898?pwd=RHY… Meeting ID: 480 313 7898 Passcode: 85250 One tap mobile +13462487799,,4803137898#,,,,*85250# US (Houston) Dial by your location +1 346 248 7799 US (Houston) +1 312 626 6799 US (Chicago) +1 646 558 8656 US (New York) Meeting ID: 480 313 7898 Passcode: 85250 Hope to see you on Monday Night.

She Knows Nothing of Manhood PB Man, oh man, you're not so crazy as to need a female shrink. Maybe it's a lack of developmental maturity. God never intended for women to initiate us. Masculine Energy is a gift only we Men can give! --- Jungian Men's X Space Sunday 9pm ET