He knows what your favourite artists don’t tell you. I’ve been waiting 8 years to sit down with the person who has spent his life quietly helping some of the greatest artists in the world make some of their greatest work. That person is Rick Rubin. Rick co-founded Def Jam at 21 and has gone on to work with people like Jay-Z, Kanye West, Adele, Johnny Cash and the Red Hot Chili Peppers. The reason I’ve wanted to speak to him for so long has much less to do with the names. Rick is a master of creativity and collaboration, and I wanted to understand how he sees things. How can someone sit in the room with that many extraordinary artists, across completely different generations and genres, and continue to be useful to them? What surprised me most about this conversation was how little Rick talks about success. He talks about paying attention. Listening to yourself. Being willing to make something other people might not understand. Protecting the part of you that was creative before the world started telling you what was good, bad, sensible or successful. We discussed things like: - Why Kanye’s fearlessness makes him such an interesting artist. - What he saw in Jay-Z’s process that he had never seen before. - Why Rick believes creativity is gradually being beaten out of us. - What does he notice that other people miss? - Why some of the best creative decisions make very little logical sense at the time. This was one of those conversations that went much deeper than I expected. Rick has spent decades thinking about creativity, taste, collaboration and what allows people to make their best work, and there’s a real depth to the way he understands all of it. Towards the end I asked Rick a very simple question: “What is your job?” His answer was, "Support people in making their beautiful things.” After waiting 8 years to have this conversation, that answer probably explains Rick better than any list of records, awards or famous names ever could. If you’ve ever wanted to understand how your favourite artists actually think and work, or how to protect more of your own creativity, I think you’ll take a lot from this conversation. Out now on all platforms ❤️👊🏾