@Emps_rexi
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Beginner Artist. I do 3D animation and modeling. (Follow does not equal endorsement.) https://nitter.cf/t.co/3UvbSZk3WA
Joined February 2020
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Another thing I was thinking about with this Classic+ / WoW Forever discourse is this false framing retail players have constructed. They correctly point out Vanilla had flaws, true, and that WoW Forever should improve the vanilla experience, also true. But then they make the leap to "so we need to add retail features and QoL". No.
They treat this like a sliding scale where "no changes vanilla" is at one end and improving the game involves moving the slider closer to "retail 2" at the other end.
Improving the classic experience does not nevcesetate making the game more like retail. There are changes that can be made that go the opposite direction in fact, making the game feel MORE like a DnD dungeon crawl and RPG experience with social interaction.
But here in lies the problem is that retail players are given an inch and want to take a mile. I hit into an argument with someone in the game who was genuinely arguing that because a new race and new dungeons were added they need to add dungeon finder (the teleport kind) and that if you're fine with a new race you need to be fine with dungeon finder, and if you don't like it go play era. He equated a new race to changing the gameplay equivalent to dungeon finder. I thought I was probably getting trolled but no that person was genuine. And this is why classic players sperg out over changes because of exactly this person. They make the claim "well it's already an altered experience so what's the excuse for not adding LFR".
And this fucking sucks because it makes it so hard to have an actual conversation on what improvements should be added to the game because you have these people using any change to justify adding in the worst retail bullshit.
Emps retweeted
$9.3 million dollars…
Thank you so much to EVERYONE. This is legit life changing and will let us continue Space King for a thousand years 😭😭
This was a good video by Esfand, and he says some of the same stuff I've also been saying. WoW forever IS classic+, and it's not going to be for everyone. He makes a good distinction that the game that isn't for everyone can still be a game for "anyone". This game will follow classic philosophy. Retail players need to stop gaslighting.
Emps retweeted
I played from Vanilla to Cataclysm and quit because it stopped feeling the same.
I kept trying to return hoping things were different, Pandaria, WoD, then Dragonflight, never there for more than a week or two, and for me it was progressively worse every time and mirrored the same modern game design I see in countless other games.
-QoL ruining discovery
-Matchmaking and raid finder ruining community
-Soft narratives and designs ruining the fantasy
-Monetization ruining progress and rewards
As one of the most cynical people out there, I didn't think Blizzard had it in them, I didn't think they had the talent, vision, competence, or care for what the game used to represent, and to my shock, they delivered.
Meeting people in the wild, joining groups to complete quests, funny one off moments, server wide drama.
Last night I traveled across the Easter Kingdoms with a group of people just to try the Under City dungeon, all of us dying, laughing, chatting, and making the journey together.
The sense of discovery is back.
The sense of scale is back.
The sense of community is back.
And until Blizzard gives me a reason not to, which to be clear they are very good at doing,
I'm back.
I'm seeing a lot of discourse about who WoW Forever is being made for and while I cannot speak for anyone else on the team I can speak for myself. I am making WoW forever for the classic gamer and for the millions of people who have had their accounts lapse over the years because they were not satisfied with changes that were made to the game. Whether those changes were to the art style, the story, social aspects, game design, or changes to their favorite class.
I did not spend the last year of my life relearning and mastering how to do things like we did it 20+ years ago for retail players. I could have taken it easy and just kept doing things like I had done for the past 8 years on retail...because I was much more familiar with it and it actually takes a lot less time to do (height maps on textures do a ton of heavy lifting). Because the reality is that the majority of retail players wouldn't care and would probably actually prefer it. But I felt I had a duty to uphold an artistic vision and integrity that millions of people expect from us. But not just for our players, but for my co-workers past and present who worked on it over 20 years ago. If I could not create something that resembled their work then I failed not only them...but myself.
Please do not take this as me throwing any shade at retail players or the retail team because I am one myself...but I wanted to make Forever as authentic of a Vanilla experience as possible. This involves making decisions wildly different than retail. It means holding the line against changes that create a domino affect down the road. It means keeping friction and inconveniences in the game. It means finding friends and forming groups with strangers and being social!! Because WoWs social aspects have always been the pillar of the game and over the years it has slowly been chiseled away at with changes that allow you play alone.
Since the day I started working on the Riverglades I have lived by three sayings.
"Convenience is the death of the journey."
"If you're making a game for everyone then you're making it for no one."
"Every change we make incurs a debt to the authenticity of the game and sooner or later that debt will be paid."
These are my core beliefs and I had a specific group of people I was targeting with my work. These beliefs cannot be shaken and I will try to hold the line against anything that goes against them and will continue to pester the team about things that feel out of place.
That being said, my hope is that Forever will pull in as many people as possible, whether you are a retail gamer, a classic gamer, someone who hasn't played in years, or even a new player. I hope you can all remember what made this game so special in the first place and that starts with understanding why we are so passionate about keeping it authentic.
They really really really need to change the animation that plays when you put in a talent point in WoW Forever. It just feels so...fluttery and whimsical. Maybe go the extra mile and make a unique one for every class? But I kind of want something a bit less obtuse. Maybe just a hammer against metal sound effect. It feels like I'm having pixy dust thrown in my face and a little fairy in a tutu is giving me a higher parry chance if that makes sense.
Emps retweeted
Seeing WoW retail players being insulted by this is hilarious.
Man walks into a burger place.
- Hi, I want a pizza
- I'm sorry sir but we make burgers here, not pizzas. You're more than welcome to order a burger though!
- I am SO insulted right now, how could you say this?
I'm seeing a lot of discourse about who WoW Forever is being made for and while I cannot speak for anyone else on the team I can speak for myself. I am making WoW forever for the classic gamer and for the millions of people who have had their accounts lapse over the years because they were not satisfied with changes that were made to the game. Whether those changes were to the art style, the story, social aspects, game design, or changes to their favorite class.
I did not spend the last year of my life relearning and mastering how to do things like we did it 20+ years ago for retail players. I could have taken it easy and just kept doing things like I had done for the past 8 years on retail...because I was much more familiar with it and it actually takes a lot less time to do (height maps on textures do a ton of heavy lifting). Because the reality is that the majority of retail players wouldn't care and would probably actually prefer it. But I felt I had a duty to uphold an artistic vision and integrity that millions of people expect from us. But not just for our players, but for my co-workers past and present who worked on it over 20 years ago. If I could not create something that resembled their work then I failed not only them...but myself.
Please do not take this as me throwing any shade at retail players or the retail team because I am one myself...but I wanted to make Forever as authentic of a Vanilla experience as possible. This involves making decisions wildly different than retail. It means holding the line against changes that create a domino affect down the road. It means keeping friction and inconveniences in the game. It means finding friends and forming groups with strangers and being social!! Because WoWs social aspects have always been the pillar of the game and over the years it has slowly been chiseled away at with changes that allow you play alone.
Since the day I started working on the Riverglades I have lived by three sayings.
"Convenience is the death of the journey."
"If you're making a game for everyone then you're making it for no one."
"Every change we make incurs a debt to the authenticity of the game and sooner or later that debt will be paid."
These are my core beliefs and I had a specific group of people I was targeting with my work. These beliefs cannot be shaken and I will try to hold the line against anything that goes against them and will continue to pester the team about things that feel out of place.
That being said, my hope is that Forever will pull in as many people as possible, whether you are a retail gamer, a classic gamer, someone who hasn't played in years, or even a new player. I hope you can all remember what made this game so special in the first place and that starts with understanding why we are so passionate about keeping it authentic.
Retail players will say insane shit like this and call classic players whiny and toxic.
"I pay a subscription so ALL VERSIONS OF WOW MUST CATER TO ME! how dare you side with those evil classic Andy's! Put LFR in immediately or we're going to get you fired!"
Wow forever and all versions of classic have been subsidized by retail players.
Your compensation at blizzard is paid for by retail xpansion box sales and in game store purchases
Without retail players there would be no classic no classic plus plus no classic wow forever.
Without retail players subsidizing classic wow you would just be working on retail it self or be packing up your stuff at accession or some other private server after eventually being forced to shut down.
So no bro. Anything you do at blizz belongs to us the players ( all of us ). Keep that in mind next time you wanna join in on some wow discourse and pick a side.
Well this vindicates me completely. Classic+ is for the classic community as I've been trying to get the retail players to understand. Big thanks to this dev for setting the record straight but I imagine the narcissism of the retail players will make them double down.
I'm seeing a lot of discourse about who WoW Forever is being made for and while I cannot speak for anyone else on the team I can speak for myself. I am making WoW forever for the classic gamer and for the millions of people who have had their accounts lapse over the years because they were not satisfied with changes that were made to the game. Whether those changes were to the art style, the story, social aspects, game design, or changes to their favorite class.
I did not spend the last year of my life relearning and mastering how to do things like we did it 20+ years ago for retail players. I could have taken it easy and just kept doing things like I had done for the past 8 years on retail...because I was much more familiar with it and it actually takes a lot less time to do (height maps on textures do a ton of heavy lifting). Because the reality is that the majority of retail players wouldn't care and would probably actually prefer it. But I felt I had a duty to uphold an artistic vision and integrity that millions of people expect from us. But not just for our players, but for my co-workers past and present who worked on it over 20 years ago. If I could not create something that resembled their work then I failed not only them...but myself.
Please do not take this as me throwing any shade at retail players or the retail team because I am one myself...but I wanted to make Forever as authentic of a Vanilla experience as possible. This involves making decisions wildly different than retail. It means holding the line against changes that create a domino affect down the road. It means keeping friction and inconveniences in the game. It means finding friends and forming groups with strangers and being social!! Because WoWs social aspects have always been the pillar of the game and over the years it has slowly been chiseled away at with changes that allow you play alone.
Since the day I started working on the Riverglades I have lived by three sayings.
"Convenience is the death of the journey."
"If you're making a game for everyone then you're making it for no one."
"Every change we make incurs a debt to the authenticity of the game and sooner or later that debt will be paid."
These are my core beliefs and I had a specific group of people I was targeting with my work. These beliefs cannot be shaken and I will try to hold the line against anything that goes against them and will continue to pester the team about things that feel out of place.
That being said, my hope is that Forever will pull in as many people as possible, whether you are a retail gamer, a classic gamer, someone who hasn't played in years, or even a new player. I hope you can all remember what made this game so special in the first place and that starts with understanding why we are so passionate about keeping it authentic.
Emps retweeted
>sitting blindfolded
>woman in Night Elf cosplay reads a WoW Forever Tweet to me
>”Retail player”
>she marks her notes
>362 consecutive correct guesses
I know I'm wasting my precious time getting into heated arguments about video games on Twitter I probably shouldn't but goddamn am I just so passionate about this topic. You have no idea how sad I was to watch WoW turn to complete shit and how frustrating it was to be beaten with the "it's just nostalgia" stick over and over. Seeing the same kind of people that lead to the absolute state of retail try and do it all over again just sends me into nerd rage.
And they call the classic community "toxic" for simply telling them to piss off.