If you believe God infallibly foreknew all future events u ARE a Divine Determinist - even if u don't know it... yet. #TheOpenTheismHeresyIsYourOnlyOtherOption
In Christ Jesus by Grace-Faith
Joined May 2012
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Arthur Moore retweeted
Sixty Christians. Sixty innocent human lives. Sixty families whose worlds have been shattered.
Look at these images. These are not statistics. These are human beings, people of faith, fathers, mothers, sons, and daughters who deserved to live, worship, and raise their families in peace.
Their only crime was being Christians. May they RIP. 🙏💔
Arthur Moore retweeted
Muslims chant about getting guns and shooting Christians on Sundays as they worship.
Also, in the same country, Muslims have been shooting Christians on Sundays as they worship.
Military action is needed.
Arthur Moore retweeted
In light of my recent post about how it's logically impossible for God to create you with LFW, many have demanded formal argumentation to support this.
My argument, as most of you know by now, is always rooted in God being the creator and sustainer of all things that exist at all moments. God is in control of His own power and the effects thereof, and is therefore in control of how things exist at all moments as He upholds them. (This includes your mind/will, obviously).
It seems as though it's very easy for me to argue people into understanding that God is in control of exactly how physical matter or energy exists. I think this demonstrates that my argument, at least as far as that aspect of creation is concerned, is valid and powerful.
However, this results in the opposition to my argument always boiling down to the attempt to separate your moral choices from your existence. I am at a loss for words at how anyone could even consider such a thing. I've asked those who claim such to explain it. I have yet to see a single explanation. It is merely a claim so far. A baseless claim thrown out in attempts to avoid the implications of my argument.
I have personally argued against them clearly and explained how you can't separate those two things. Your choices and thoughts and desires are grounded in the state of existence of your mind or will at those given moments. You can't separate them.
My explanations are declared to be non-sequiturs without explanation. I have not encountered any serious engagement thus far.
Below is a formal structure to my argument from God as sustainer of all existence. While you can swap "choice" in this argument for anything else that exists and this argument stands. This particular formulation of the argument focuses on human choice and how you can't separate that from your existence.
I'm asking anyone anywhere to provide a detailed refutation of this argument. Please demonstrate why one of the premises is wrong or why the conclusion does not follow.
I have yet to get any meaningful engagemetn from my casual conversations here on X. I'm hoping a more public declaration of my argument might gain some more serious engagement.
Arthur Moore retweeted
Weak.
The idea that we merely “think” he is not able to do what is logically impossible is absurd. We can very easily demonstrate using logic that God can’t do illogical things.
Can God sin? No?? You must have “a low view of God” if you say he can’t do something… Right?
Or... perhaps it’s actually the opposite. Perhaps it’s the HIGHEST POSSIBLE VIEW OF GOD to say God CANNOT sin.
The same holds true for any other thing that God can't do. There's a difference between saying God can't do something because he's not powerful enough and saying God can't do something because He's God.
God can't sin, cause Himself to cease to exist, create another God like Himself, or lie. The list goes on and on. Saying God can't do these things is not a "low view". It's the highest possible view.
God creating you with LFW is just as logically impossible as all the things above. You wanting to claim autonomy for yourself is on par with saying God can sin or cease to exist.
I stand ready to defend that position with "rational reasons". What you "think" doesn't matter. Your imagination is not the arbiter of truth.
Arthur Moore retweeted
Since the “If God can’t make a rock so big he can’t move it…” form of argument keeps resurfacing, despite the refutation, let’s provide the refutation.
The ultimate reason for that which exists or occurs goes back to God the Creator and Preserver.
Nothing except God has self-existence. That’s the Creator-Creature distinction.
God can and does create free creatures, as well as plants, planets, stars, etc. However, creaturely freedom is relative. Plants have life that rocks don’t have. Animals have freedom of movement that plants lack. Humans and angels have even more freedom than animals. But all of this freedom is freedom relative to the creation, not freedom from the Creator.
The ultimate reason for your continued existence from moment to moment, is God willing it to be so. You are free in many ways, but you are not self-existent.
You can deny that God determines everything, and folks like @Soteriology101 do exactly that, but you cannot escape the fact that God knows in advance what you plan to deny and could prevent you from doing so, not by overpowering you, but simply by withdrawing his permission that you continue to exist.
You might object that there are folks who believe that God decides everything that will happen, but that God does so without determining it. Ultimately, this objection comes down to an important nuance as to the precise scope of what “determine” means.
Ultimately, though, the idea of God creating a being that in any way doesn’t depend on God for its very existence, much less its action, is not a high view of God’s creative ability, it’s just a fundamental error regarding the Creator-Creature distinction.
Arthur Moore retweeted
Great response!
Since the “If God can’t make a rock so big he can’t move it…” form of argument keeps resurfacing, despite the refutation, let’s provide the refutation.
The ultimate reason for that which exists or occurs goes back to God the Creator and Preserver.
Nothing except God has self-existence. That’s the Creator-Creature distinction.
God can and does create free creatures, as well as plants, planets, stars, etc. However, creaturely freedom is relative. Plants have life that rocks don’t have. Animals have freedom of movement that plants lack. Humans and angels have even more freedom than animals. But all of this freedom is freedom relative to the creation, not freedom from the Creator.
The ultimate reason for your continued existence from moment to moment, is God willing it to be so. You are free in many ways, but you are not self-existent.
You can deny that God determines everything, and folks like @Soteriology101 do exactly that, but you cannot escape the fact that God knows in advance what you plan to deny and could prevent you from doing so, not by overpowering you, but simply by withdrawing his permission that you continue to exist.
You might object that there are folks who believe that God decides everything that will happen, but that God does so without determining it. Ultimately, this objection comes down to an important nuance as to the precise scope of what “determine” means.
Ultimately, though, the idea of God creating a being that in any way doesn’t depend on God for its very existence, much less its action, is not a high view of God’s creative ability, it’s just a fundamental error regarding the Creator-Creature distinction.
Arthur Moore retweeted
God wills the occurrence of evil for good purposes.
What God wills is good.
Thus, it is good that evil occurs for good purposes.
Fixed it.
And for the record: The above is not Calvinist specific. It should be affirmed by any Christian (even bare permission views).
Evil occurring for no good purpose would be bad, by definition.
Arthur Moore retweeted
The argument isn’t “God predestined THIS evil act and therefore predestined ALL evil acts.”
The crucifixion proves:
1) God does predestine evil acts and it doesn’t make God evil (because he has good purposes)
2) God can still hold the evil doer responsible for doing what he predestined them to do.
When it comes to the generality of ALL evil, we go to more general texts, such as Isa 46:10-11.
Arthur Moore retweeted
Unborn Babies Disguise Selves As Death Row Inmates So Liberals Will Defend Their Right To Live buff.ly/RiYEyHx
Arthur Moore retweeted
God’s love is powerful. It saves those whom it is set upon. (God is free).
Your claim that God loves everyone has no more power than to make you feel good about God.
Apart from the LFW of man, it isn’t powerful enough to save a single solitary person.
Arthur Moore retweeted
🤦♂️Dinesh, if playing a numbers game is your standard... why isn't 100% of humanity saved on your system?
If God possessed exhaustive, infallible foreknowledge before creating the universe, He knew with 100% certainty precisely which individuals would reject Him and end up in hell. Yet, He actively chose to bring those specific people into existence anyway.
🤔 Couldn't God have produced a vastly higher percentage... even 100% salvation... simply by choosing not to create the individuals He knew would only ever perish?
To answer that, you are trapped in a dilemma: either you must concede that God actively created those people for a purpose other than their salvation, suporting Calvinism, or you must claim God didn’t actually know their choices when He created them, abandoning biblical Omniscience for Open Theism.
On Calvinism, God possesses the absolute freedom and power to save all people, but sovereignly chooses not to for holy and righteous purposes revealed in time (Proverbs 16:4, Romans 9:22–23).
On your view, God is not free to save anyone at all until fallen creatures prove themselves respectable by choosing Him first.
On Provisionism "Let's say" God knew that only 10% of those he created would call Jesus "Lord Lord" could he produce a higher percentage by not creating the other 90%?
🤷♂️On #Provisionism what is God's purpose for creating the other 90%?
Arthur Moore retweeted
Yes.
What question follows?
Why not?
What’s the Bible’s answer?
Also, why doesn’t God “try harder” in your view as well? Why not appear personally to every individual? If it even had a CHANCE to save more?
It’s not a numbers game.
Arthur Moore retweeted
The King of the Βουλομαχοι plucks the single string of their primary banjo weapon: why would God decree? As if he, or any of his fellow travelers on the path of the βουλομαχοι, have access to the purposes of God's eternal decree any more than we do. The audacity and hubris of the creature to ask "מַֽה־תַּעֲשֶׂ֔ה" (what are you doing?) or "What have You done?" (Dan. 4:35) seems utterly lost on the βουλομαχοι, but this does not keep them from their mockery.
God had a reason to decree the cycle of apostasy and restoration of the people of Israel; for the split in the kingdom and all the "free acts" that led to it. The Bible is full of things that, if the βουλομαχοι were consistent, they could mock in the very same fashion as LF does here. "Why did God decree the true religion of Yahweh to become intertwined with Baal worship?" And yet He did partly so that the resultant cycle would be recorded for us in Scripture for our own edification today.
But, but, God can't do that! Well, maybe their time-bound god can't, but the one who "does according to His will in the host of heaven AND AMONG THE INHABITANTS OF EARTH" (Dan. 4:35) can, and does, do exactly that.
Arthur Moore retweeted
New Episode: "The Vagueness of Provisionism - Final Part 7 - Sovereignty" is now available.
Youtube:
youtu.be/3RB2tw9apwo
Arthur Moore retweeted
Podcast:
consistentcalvinism.podbean.…
Arthur Moore retweeted
One is not saved BY election.
Election is God’s (Eternal) choice of who will BE SAVED by Grace through Faith (in time).
Even the most basic “TULIP” acrostic reading would state this plainly.
